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  #1  
Old 05-07-2005, 01:05 PM
izombie izombie is offline
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Default Sidecars

Hullo all, been reading these for a while so thought i'd ask for help here

Just fitted a 1962 Jawa sidecar to me Vmax
but can i ride the bugger? can i hell.......all's fine until a left hander comes up and i have to come to an actual stop to get round it without tipping over!!

i reckon it's because of the weight of the 'Max and am looking to fit a car wheel to the sidecar for extra weight and to match the size of the front wheel i have on the bike!

Any other ideas for me?

ta
Malky
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  #2  
Old 05-07-2005, 01:09 PM
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Stick a load of ballast,sand,concrete,dead chavs' jewellery etc under the seat,a mate of mine did that,helped a bit.
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  #3  
Old 05-07-2005, 03:02 PM
BigBod BigBod is offline
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It's a bit of a light chair to put on a Max especially if your learning.

The ballast thing will help, also when setting up the bike and chair, have the bike leaning in a bit, not too much, try about 3/4 of an inch to start with. This is easily measured buy tying a plumb line from the left handlebar down to the ground, you can then measure how much the lean in is. Best done on a level surface so you know you are starting of from zero.

If you want to really get into the sidecar thing, get the sidecar wheel braked. You can dab it on left handers and drive round the chair.

Once you get the hang of it the bike should actually have a little bit of lean out to allow for the camber of the road.

I have got 14" car rims and tyres all round, this lowers the outfit therefore lowering the centre of gravity and allows you to go round corners quicker.

Hope this helps.

Fecking luv sidecars me
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  #4  
Old 05-07-2005, 03:23 PM
izombie izombie is offline
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Default sidecar

nope not learning but perhaps i should have learnt better by now!!!

I'm gonna fit a low profile tyre and add ballist i think, already have the lean out.

cheers chaps
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  #5  
Old 05-07-2005, 08:48 PM
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not to be insulting or anything mate, but a lot of folk don't actually know how to corner an outfit.. I rode a gl100 and chair for years, and you need to accelerate for left handers,, and slow down for right handers, exactly the opposite of what you would think.. Lots of folk slow down on left hand bends and that causes the chair to lift, you need to drive the bike round the chair...anyway hope that helps..
and get a fat woman for the chair.. that helps too!
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  #6  
Old 05-07-2005, 08:49 PM
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ah sorry mate, just read that you are not learning..
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  #7  
Old 05-07-2005, 09:04 PM
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Anyone who perseveres with a side car, is clearly not learning. Possibly not even capable of learning. They're frigging horrible and should be removed from the face of the earth by any means necessary, up to and including thermonuclear weapons.

Worth pointing out that since Vee Maxii aren't noted for their handling any way bolting a lump of metal to the side of an already wobbly frame isn't going to improve matters any..........

Plus the wheels are **** at lateral loads.
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  #8  
Old 05-07-2005, 10:47 PM
Alik Windrush Alik Windrush is offline
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Outfits are fun, the older you get the faster you can ride them. Something to do with diminishing brain cells I think.!
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  #9  
Old 05-07-2005, 11:36 PM
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Remember the Two Fat Ladies, the one in charge of the combo could spin it around almost !!
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  #10  
Old 06-07-2005, 02:31 AM
Alik Windrush Alik Windrush is offline
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It's actually more complicated than that. Usually you set up an outfit with the sidecar wheel at a minimum of six inch lead on the rear wheel.
The further forward the chair wheel then the more stable the plot will feel on right handers.
You may have noticed that on racing outfits the chair wheel is almost in line with the rear wheel.
This makes the plot very exciting to ride but rather skittish on left turns.
The actal set up is a very personal choice; tedious and boring or exciting and twitchy.
Older bikes offered little power which was mostly lost with a chair attached. Modern bikes however offer a whole new experience.
Easy to mock when you haven't tried...!!!!
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  #11  
Old 06-07-2005, 08:15 AM
izombie izombie is offline
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Default sidecar

thanks all, will take everything on board and give it a go. It was put on mainly for rallies so might take it off when using normally.

oh and Blackjack....if i wanted something that handled i would have bought a car or a sportbike!! keep your pointless opinions to yourself mate, what's the point of answering a question just to have a go?

Malky
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  #12  
Old 06-07-2005, 12:49 PM
Blackjack Blackjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izombie
thanks all, will take everything on board and give it a go. It was put on mainly for rallies so might take it off when using normally.

oh and Blackjack....if i wanted something that handled i would have bought a car or a sportbike!! keep your pointless opinions to yourself mate, what's the point of answering a question just to have a go?

Malky
If you actually noticed, there was information of a slightly more useful kind at the end of my post. To whit, Vee Max wheels are crap and especially crap when used on an outfit. And if you start riding it hard and plan on taking it off, watch that the frame doesn't take on new and interesting shapes cause that's made out of Plasticine too..

As for something that handled well you could have bought a Wasp motorcross side car out fit and had it on road tyres, which will pretty much run rings round a bolt on one as it's an integrated chassis.

And having built a few sidecars in my time, I beg to suggest that my opinion on the subject isn't entirely pointless............

Anyone want to point out that a sidecar is a different taxation class from a solo so "popping" the chair on and off is a little more fraught than just nuts and bolts?
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  #13  
Old 06-07-2005, 01:32 PM
izombie izombie is offline
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Default sidecar

hey sorry mate, just went back and actually read what you said, sorry for any offense....
been riding the Max for about 7 years now (riding for 15 yrs in total) so i know all the limitations of the thing, was gonna trike it but like the idea of being able to take the 'car off

never expected to ride like i always do but i think i have got something wrong on it somewhere......

Malky
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  #14  
Old 06-07-2005, 08:37 PM
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I'll admit I was under the impression that bolting a sidecar on changed the wheel plan which required a change to the log book and hence the tax disc.

And I've just checked and they're STILL crap.
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2005, 11:40 PM
Alik Windrush Alik Windrush is offline
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They're luverly...... Just not as good as a trike and insurance companies don't give you a 50% discount for a combo like they used to.
Nice thing about outfits is that they require a higher skill level to ride than a bike. And the challenge is always there; Once you feel that you're in control just do everything 10 mph quicker and you're onto the next higher skill learning curve. Remarkable things.
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  #16  
Old 07-07-2005, 04:47 PM
izombie izombie is offline
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Default sidecar

well no change to me tax and insurance says there's no change to that either.......woohoo happy bunny

mind you i'm still dreaming of the trike i wanna make if the engine holds together!!

thanks for all the info guys, like them or not!!

Malky
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  #17  
Old 08-07-2005, 10:08 AM
BigBod BigBod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alik Windrush
They're luverly...... Just not as good as a trike and insurance companies don't give you a 50% discount for a combo like they used to.
Nice thing about outfits is that they require a higher skill level to ride than a bike. And the challenge is always there; Once you feel that you're in control just do everything 10 mph quicker and you're onto the next higher skill learning curve. Remarkable things.
Couldn't agree more. Bloody good fun. Oh, and they are better than a trike
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  #18  
Old 08-07-2005, 12:43 PM
titusni titusni is offline
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Default Vmax trike

Quote:
Originally Posted by izombie
mind you i'm still dreaming of the trike i wanna make if the engine holds together!!
If you want to dream about a Vmax trike have a butchers at mine - http://www.oldcolo.com/~bradley/trike/

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  #19  
Old 08-07-2005, 08:42 PM
colin colin is offline
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Sidecars bloody good things - wife loves hers and so do the kids. Just when you think that you have it sorted then BAM it does something you completely don't expect or goes round a corner like you wouldn't expect or veers off in whatever direction the camber of the road takes you. Scares me absolutely ****less on a regular basis. What a laugh
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  #20  
Old 09-07-2005, 11:08 AM
izombie izombie is offline
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Default sidecar

Quote:
Originally Posted by titusni
If you want to dream about a Vmax trike have a butchers at mine - http://www.oldcolo.com/~bradley/trike/


already seen it mate, i log into VmaxChat as PigUgly......will be posting a pic soon!!

Malky
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  #21  
Old 10-07-2005, 05:43 PM
PILRCGeff PILRCGeff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izombie
Hullo all, been reading these for a while so thought i'd ask for help here

Just fitted a 1962 Jawa sidecar to me Vmax
but can i ride the bugger? can i hell.......all's fine until a left hander comes up and i have to come to an actual stop to get round it without tipping over!!

i reckon it's because of the weight of the 'Max and am looking to fit a car wheel to the sidecar for extra weight and to match the size of the front wheel i have on the bike!

Any other ideas for me?

ta
Malky
The trick with sidecars is to use the engine to steer.
Sounds daft I know but basically, assuming your car is on the left, to turn left you need to put more power down, to turn right slow down. Obviously turn handles at same time.

Also who set the car up for you, I believe the bike should be leaning in slightly.

Good chap for sidecar advice is David Angel at F2 Motorcycles in Banbury. He sells the URAL combinations and what he dont know about setting sidecars up for the road and riding them possibly aint worth knowing. (He cant ride very well without a chair, hes been doing it so long, hates solos as he calls them)

If Im teaching granny to suck eggs please ignore!
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  #22  
Old 10-07-2005, 10:50 PM
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Had five outfits when I was a young (and very skint) apprentice. I have stood the sidecar onit's nose on right handers and had the chair in the air on left, I've done power slides on the M21 outfit that is my Avatar, due mainly to the rigid rear end and jumped them in the air over hump back bridges. Sidecar outfits are brilliant fun and require a lot of skill to ride properly. Perseverence is the key, the next best thing to a combo is a trike.....

PS got pulled by the coppers on the way to the pub with seven passenger on bike and sidecar....
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  #23  
Old 12-07-2005, 09:21 AM
izombie izombie is offline
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Default sidecar

well here it is in all it's ugly-ness
have yet to fit the Fiesta wheel, fog horn, screen and bigger radiator!!

http://www.vmaxchat.co.uk/JonP/pigugly/index.htm
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  #24  
Old 12-07-2005, 10:14 AM
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Brutal

I like it.
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  #25  
Old 12-07-2005, 11:03 AM
PILRCGeff PILRCGeff is offline
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Looking at the pic reminded me of another problem with the bolting on and off theory and thats tyres. Ideally an outfit wants different tyres witha squarer profile. If you use ordinary ones they will square off anyway so when you go back to two wheels that will be a whole other load of fun to deal with!
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  #26  
Old 12-07-2005, 12:30 PM
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Excelerate on left handers to over take the chair, brake on Right handers to allow the chair to pass you.

Aslo make sure the Tow and lean angles are right on the chair
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  #27  
Old 12-07-2005, 12:33 PM
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Love it !!!
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  #28  
Old 12-07-2005, 12:42 PM
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I love that pic on the front . Was it on there when you got the chair ?
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  #29  
Old 13-07-2005, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izombie
well here it is in all it's ugly-ness
have yet to fit the Fiesta wheel, fog horn, screen and bigger radiator!!

http://www.vmaxchat.co.uk/JonP/pigugly/index.htm
i wouldnt say pig ugly, diffrent maybe...........the location looks familiar to me, not a fire extinguisher place by anychance is it!!
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  #30  
Old 13-07-2005, 08:11 AM
izombie izombie is offline
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Default sidecar

Quote:
Originally Posted by addjunkie
i wouldnt say pig ugly, diffrent maybe...........the location looks familiar to me, not a fire extinguisher place by anychance is it!!
and a dive centre and a certain Printers (me!) How d'ya know of us?

and yes that front end was put on by me a couple of years ago, built by Pegasus Engineering, solid 3" x 12" yokes (blind top), solid 3" risers and split rim wheel built to match the Max back one........very, very heavy and bloody hard to ride but i don't need to go to the gym any-more
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