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Old 02-10-2013, 01:50 PM
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Yesterday, not that anyone really noticed, Teaching unions called a general strike for the east of England region.

As ever, their basic goals are nobel enough - restore exisitng contracts over pensions (given that the government declared contracts over bonuses to be binding, but not over public sector pensions), end the pay freeze and restore pay imrovement parity with the private sector. The side-line issue of how to introduce perfomrance related pay for a 'product' you can't measure (if you measure education by grades acheived, then a qualification only tells you how good an institution is it would tell you nothing about the skills of the qualification holder) will rage on.

I did not strike, despite being a NUTer.
A general strike has already been ignored. A partial strike is hardly going to have any impact is it? What will happen is that it will inconvenience many other people. I am employed to educate, not provide day-care, but I understand that a downturn in public opinion of teachers won't help them fight their cause against government (and may result in government feeling happier to introduce further sanction).
So, no likely benefit, risk of actual harm. I'm not striking. It's a stupid strategy.

The goals themselves need work too. Yes, teachers have taken sanctions for a problem they didn't create. The same is true for many others as well. And merely being a victim doesn't create the resources for a solution. Does the government have the money? Yes, but they'll spend it on other things; so all the unions are really doing is protesting government spending priorities. Great. Join the queue. We know the government will work for the benefit of the industries that back their rise to power. And therein lies a better solution.

Two different things teaching unions could do:
1 - refuse all formal assessment. Lets see how long the gov't ignores teacher demands when nobody gets a GCSE, BTec or A-Level. Worked nearly instantly in the University sector.
2 - If the Eatonain / Bullingdon boys club is running the show, then you know the rules of the game. Stop protesting the rules and start playing. Merge the unions and hire a raft of Eatonian/Bullingdons to run it. Argue for an industry of self-regulation and defferance to professionals (like the financial services get) with appropriate reward and incentive (ditto) and have Harry-rugger-bugger-no-chin-III as the representative to government.

Why am I posting this here? The BBC news website never publishes my comments and the TES forums find me, err, different. So, I send this message out to the universe from here. Who knows, perhaps the discussion will gain traction and someone with influence will come to consider the idea. Perhaps I'll just be repeatedly called a cunt. I almost care which.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:47 PM
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Pay freeze! I'd have loved one. I'm earning 100 a week LESS than I was on two year ago. In fact, I'm earning less a week than I was on five year ago.

Oh, and it's ETONian
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:10 AM
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Ok, not for the first time, I'll just call you a cunt. You are also a very boring cunt.

All that you will achieve by posting your pinko propaganda here, is that you will get even more abuse thrown at you.

I really don't give a flying fuck about teachers pay and conditions, nor their pensions. They have jobs. They earn a salary and get long holidays. Their success and performance is in my opinion sadly lacking. I attribute those failings to their spending way too much time thinking about themselves rather than the children they are supposed to be educating.

I was expelled from two Grammar schools and one fully comprehensive. I was then sent down. While I was inside, I still managed to get 3 grade 1 "O levels". I got 5 more, all grade 1, by taking classes while I was in the army.

While you lazy bastards are moaning about how bad your lot is, kids are leaving school barely able to string a coherent sentence together, never mind being able to spell or calculate basic arithmetic. Your in service training days are just an official skive.

Girls are no longer taught how to do basic things like cook a simple meal with basic fresh ingredients. Instead my daughter was taught how to microwave a pizza. I had to teach her how to cook. I also had to teach her how to sew a button on her blouse, replace a zip, etc etc. She attended lessons in "Textiles", but I have no idea what benefit that gave her.

When she left school she got 12 GCSE's and all at good grades. She got those grades because Mrs Chopper and I made damn sure she did her homework and actually understood what it was she was supposed to be learning. Most of the time her homework was not marked and when we met her teachers at a parents evening, I began to see why kids are NOT prepared for life after school.

I had to teach my daughter how to apply for a job, write a proper letter of application, prepare her CV and how to conduct herself at an interview. The school failed my daughter and her classmates, very badly.

Before you come on here whinging again and proclaiming all manner of conspiracy theories, how about you whinging fuckers spared a thought for all of those people that would love to have a job as well paid as a teachers position. A position that does come with a pension and considerable other benefits.

How about all the old folk that are going to really suffer this year because they cannot afford to heat their homes and eat a decent diet. What about all the ex service personnel that have been ripped off by the government on their War Pensions. War Pensions are not just given out because you did three years service. You have to suffer very real injuries or illness directly caused by service. Then you have to fight civvie wankers to get what you are entitled to.

What about the fact that hundreds of thousands of kids go to school with no breakfast because their parents are so hard up. Not everyone on a low income is a benefit cheat or scrounger.

What about the thousands of sick people that desperately need treatment, but cannot get it because of the downright incompetence of the hospital managers that are supposed to be educated people. Their incompetence is rewarded with promotion and cause a further massive drain on the NHS because of their outrageous salaries.

Think yourself lucky you have a job that gives you a salary. You may not be able to afford three foreign holidays a year and a 6 bedroom house in some fancy area, but that is your own fault for living above your means.

Stop fucking whinging, get a fucking grip and go fuck yourself.

Cunt.

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Old 03-10-2013, 09:44 AM
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I have a question for you Fenrir.

why does the NUT think there should be a national pay agreement for everywhere outside London. Cost of living is not identical so why should salary be.

It makes no economic sense when the private sector pays salaries based on supply and demand for the NUT to state that a teacher in Burnley (average 20% deposit for a house = 14,470) and Reading (20% of average price = 39,789) should get paid the same take home.

As you get the internal magazines etc what argument does the NUT give for that position. As for performance measurement for bonuses what is wrong with using aggregate Value added score ? If you know the start point and end point you can measure progress and therefore see who is delivering results, yes there will be some oddities but with 30 kids in a class I reckon bonuses of -3%,0%, +3%, 6% or 9% based on average progress could be easily calculated.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:32 AM
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Wurzel - I am a NUT mainly becuase its an effective requirement to be in a union for legal support. Policies such as national pay scales (but not london) make little sense to me; but I don't get to pick and choose the priorities.
As for value added - all that happens is that each institution in the chain tries to downgrade the previous achievement and elevate what's acheived in the institution. None of the grades or levels acheived actually tell you much about the student - just about the ability of the institution to game the system.

Chopper - actually, I can't even be bothered. Just your normal rant that misses the point entirely and then subjects us to boring and irrelevent biographical crap.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Fenrir View Post
Wurzel - I am a NUT mainly becuase its an effective requirement to be in a union for legal support. Policies such as national pay scales (but not london) make little sense to me; but I don't get to pick and choose the priorities.
As for value added - all that happens is that each institution in the chain tries to downgrade the previous achievement and elevate what's acheived in the institution. None of the grades or levels acheived actually tell you much about the student - just about the ability of the institution to game the system.

Chopper - actually, I can't even be bothered. Just your normal rant that misses the point entirely and then subjects us to boring and irrelevent biographical crap.
No, I didn't miss the point. You are a selfish boring cunt, fucking greedy as well. It is you teachers that are missing the point.

The cold hard fact is that a hell of a lot of teachers are failing miserably. They allow kids to leave school, without the basic minimum of literacy and numeracy skills, to enable them to get some sort of job. By the time a kid leaves formal education, he should be ready to take his/her first steps into the big wide world. Very few of them are ready and it is teachers to blame.

Start doing the job properly, treat every child as an individual, match his or her needs to lessons. Stop fucking about calling subjects by different names and putting priority on PC bullshit, such as teaching white Anglo Saxon kids about being a muslim. START FUCKING TEACHING. Make sure our kids leave school with the basic knowledge and skills they NEED, NOT what a bunch of left wing sad fucks think they need. No white Anglo Saxon kid needs to learn anything about being a muslim, or a queer, but they do need to know how to read, write and do their sums.

In the real world you have to match performance with demands. You bunch of left wing sad fucks are only interested in what the country will cough up to those of you that have not earned it. YOU NUT members are more interested in yourselves, than doing your job properly. If you can't hack it, then get the fuck out of the profession. You knew the score when you became a "Teacher". You cannot expect the rules to change after you join. If you are a good teacher, you will always have work and an income. If you want your income to increase, then work harder, achieve higher results and you may have a case to plead.

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Old 03-10-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopperFXR View Post
. If you want your income to increase, then work harder, achieve higher results and you may have a case to plead.

Chopper
I wish it was that but from the outside to me it looks like

If you want your income to increase, then keep your head down plod along take a few extra courses to give you points of speciality and get automatic pay rises every year based on length of service until you retire on a gold plated pension
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:53 PM
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No, I didn't miss the point. You are a selfish boring cunt, fucking greedy as well. It is you teachers that are missing the point.

The cold hard fact is that a hell of a lot of teachers are failing miserably. What cold hard fact? Your personal opinion based upon a very limited experience of the industry?They allow kids to leave school, without the basic minimum of literacy and numeracy skills, to enable them to get some sort of job. By the time a kid leaves formal education, he should be ready to take his/her first steps into the big wide worldAnd after 10 years of mandatory education, can you really claim that any kid still unable to meet basic literacy standards has been failed by every single teacher they encountered in this time, or could it just be that the kid themselves (or parents) should have taken more responsibility for their progress?. Very few of them are ready and it is teachers to blameYeah, we're to blame becuase kids with a 40% attendance record and parents quite willing to go to court instead of sending their kids to school is a perfect definition of teacher failings.

Start doing the job properly, treat every child as an individual, match his or her needs to lessonsThis is already industry standard. All kids have an entry profile, they are tested for all known learning conditions and relevant support is established. All kids have a personalised individual education plan that accounts for their skills on entry and progress path. All of this is tracked and monitored every year of school with reports generated. And that's just the basics. On top of that there are remedial classes, stretch and challenge classes, exam resit assistnace, after school homework assistnace, the list goes on. Stop fucking about calling subjects by different names and putting priority on PC bullshit, such as teaching white Anglo Saxon kids about being a muslim. START FUCKING TEACHING. Make sure our kids leave school with the basic knowledge and skills they NEED, NOT what a bunch of left wing sad fucks think they need. No white Anglo Saxon kid needs to learn anything about being a muslim, or a queer, but they do need to know how to read, write and do their sumsTeachers have ZERO input over course content. You wanna whinge about kids being taught X, Y, and Z, go moan to the dpeartment of education who decide all this stuff. At the moment you're metaphorically complaining to the drive-thru staff at Mcdonalds about the company's farming practices.

In the real world you have to match performance with demands. You bunch of left wing sad fucksI'm not left wing. Never was never will be are only interested in what the country will cough up to those of you that have not earned it. YOU NUT members are more interested in yourselves, than doing your job properly. If you can't hack it, then get the fuck out of the professionYeah, because this profession is so 'cozy' that there's queues around the block of people clammering to get in and almost no one quits the profession after less than 3 years. Oh, wait, neither of those things is true! Teaching applications are way down and staff turnover at the 3 year mark (out of the profession entirely) is one of the worst of any industry going. You knew the score when you became a "Teacher". You cannot expect the rules to change after you join (actually, I'm arguing to keep the rules like they were when I joined; rahter than haviung them changed for the benefit of people who already have all the wealth - who was that you were calling greedy?). If you are a good teacher, you will always have work and an income. If you want your income to increase, then work harder, achieve higher results If hard work produced better results, there'd be no need for private education. Low class sizes and a supportive homelife of the students have a mssively bigger impact on grades achieved than the teacher themselves (demonstrated in numerous academic studies) and you may have a case to plead.

Chopper
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:16 PM
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my views on life are rather simple, but here goes, you have a job, one thats not exactly hard in my opinion, shit loads of holiday, hardly unsociable hours

be fucking grateful and get on with that job.

I do understand that a lot of the problems for teachers is down to people above them telling them what and how to do things, I have lost count of the number of times I have had run ins with my daughters school regarding the teaching methods, they are crap, simple...

but you have to be very lucky in life to genuinely have a job that you enjoy.

if you really hate your job so much then go and get a new one, or would that involve working far more hours, for less money and perks, maybe actually getting dirty or sweaty?? being subjected to reduction in hours and pay??

anyway Im back off to my work, a job that in 19 years I have only had 9 days sick, of them 9, 7 were spent in hospital.
only once have I woken up and thought I really dont want to go to work today..
I am earning less than i was in 2008..

in fact I like my life.

guess it sucks to be you LOL
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:17 PM
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Fuck sake over paid teachers and there need to use Red ink... No sympathy here. Stop fucking whining and do the job right. Too many Asbo candidates slithering out of schools because of twats like you creating pidgeon holes for kids who simply don't listen because you daft bastards have lost control in the class rooms. Bring back the basics and make your pay dependant on performance as with most industries, Results based on Maths & English Grades.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:30 PM
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having 3 children within the "education" system, i fully support choppers comments. teachers these days are a bunch of pinko wishy-washy hand-ringing liberal idiots who spend their time trying to befriend the kids instead of teaching them, ("just call me lionel, not Mr jones"). my eldest is diagnosed with aspergers, his IQ is off the scale, at 6 his reading age was 14, by 12 his reading material of choice was quantum mechanics... all thru school his grades have been A* for attainment, E for effort. when i ask why he isnt trying he rolls his eyes and says he doesnt need to, they're teaching for idiots. teachers spend all their time on the thick cunts and ignore the ones who could actually do this country some good. the other 2 arnt far behind and have similar issues. meanwhile we have to put up with teachers whining about pay and conditions, pensions etc. they only work half a day, get half a year off, have job security, get paid loads... bunch of usless waster cunts, 99% of 'em.

not as eloquent as chopper.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:39 PM
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I was a teacher for 15 years. I left when it stopped being enjoyable and the stress was affectuing my health.

I can find things to agree with in fenrir's posts, as I can in Chopper's and Tony's.

Teaching nowadays is dominated by desk-bound 'experts' with a political/philosophical axe to grind. Lip-service is paid to getting kids basic readind/writing/number skills but in practice it often doesn't happen because there is too much crammed into a limited time re other subjects.

The job itself CAN be an enjoyable experience, but often isn't because of this pulling in different directions. it isn't helped because every Secretary of State for Education pulls the whole shebang in another direction.

Yep, it's well paid and the basic conditions are pretty good. They have to be. Experienced (read 'older') teachers are leaving in droves, and fresh meat is needed. These older teachers are the ones that are sceptical of the Politically Corect nonsense promulgated as Educational Research by people that would rather lose a body part than teach a bottom set class last thing on a Friday afternoon.

Chopper can rip the shit out of this.
I don't care a fuck: I'm now doing permanent nights in a physically demanding unskilled job and never been happier.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:43 PM
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LOL Im laughing at your post Rob, but only as its so damn true

my daughter came home and said she wanted to go in the special class.
I asked what she was on about and she explained that the naughty kids in her class got sent to another class for a couple of hours, and got to play and have chocolate etc, how unfair is that she protested, in her own words the retards got rewarded LOL LOL

I got a bollocking from the teachers as I took my daughter to a much higher level of maths than the school were teaching, only because she was bored, and the method they were teaching made no sense to her.

the school said that they teach one method then later do it the other way.

ok, thats one way to fuck up a kids head, she did a maths test, never got less than 100% in spellings or maths in her entire school life, she came home in floods of tears, her book marked 0% all wrong.

her answers were correct, she showed her working out, but it wasnt the method they wanted her to use.

the teacher saw me stompin in the next morning and her face dropped LOL

the same teacher has now 3 times had to change the spellings list that was sent home for the kids to learn, due to spelling mistakes!!
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:22 PM
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having 3 children within the "education" system, i fully support choppers comments. teachers these days are a bunch of pinko wishy-washy hand-ringing liberal idiots who spend their time trying to befriend the kids instead of teaching them, ("just call me lionel, not Mr jones"). my eldest is diagnosed with aspergers, his IQ is off the scale, at 6 his reading age was 14, by 12 his reading material of choice was quantum mechanics... all thru school his grades have been A* for attainment, E for effort. when i ask why he isnt trying he rolls his eyes and says he doesnt need to, they're teaching for idiots. teachers spend all their time on the thick cunts and ignore the ones who could actually do this country some good. the other 2 arnt far behind and have similar issues. meanwhile we have to put up with teachers whining about pay and conditions, pensions etc. they only work half a day, get half a year off, have job security, get paid loads... bunch of usless waster cunts, 99% of 'em.

not as eloquent as chopper.
In a class of 30-35, how much time do you think a single teacher can possibly have to ensure that no one is being left behind and that no one is being inadaquately stretched? If you worked to those principles you'd die of old age befre you got half way through the material. Techers are told to prioritise either high achievers or borderline passers. You'll find it cycles around every 5 or so years as to who we have to focus on. Focus on the "wrong" groups and you'll get a bollocking.

As for your thought on pay and conditions - fpmsl. Reminds me of the kid who thought bin men only worked one day a week. Just 'coz you don't see the work doesn't mean it ain't going on.

Work half a day? No. I work 8-5 in the school. Tend to my kid until his bed at 8 or so. Work until 10. Bed. I do 70 hour weeks in term time (2 full time jobs worth) and 30-40 hr weeks in non-term time.

Get half a year off? No. The holidays are better than some, I won't lie about that. But non-term time is not all holiday time. Results and tracking must be processed. Departmental and staff performance reviews must be done. Resources must be created and updated (what, you thought all those workseehts magically appeared?). None of this is the most taxing stuff in the universe, but it does all take an unbeleivable amount of time to produce.

Job security? It's a myth. Redundencies are rife in my current institution; another round is due soon even though student intake is rising again. Teachers can get fired, but are more commonly 'managed out of the job' before an actual sacking. The stereotype of the useless prat staying year in year out disappeared with the league table.

Get paid loads? Are you taking the piss? Senior management get paid loads (and unlike teachers, their pay continues to rise). Teaching staff get between $18-35 from entry level to departmental management. To be on the top end of that you need a degree, professional post-graduate qualification, and a lot of year's experience, and London pay-weighting. If you had the same qualifications and experience for a professional level financial services job, you'd piss yourslef laughing if a London firm offered you 30k.

But if you think it's all so nice in teaching Rob, feel free to join us. But I reckon you'd change yer tune once you'd seen it from the inside.
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:52 PM
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i've taught in schools, i used to teach teachers to be teachers & i've taught in colleges/universities & then i moved into industry.

i'm retired now & from that perspective i don't give much of a fuck anymore for much (ps it Eton not fucking Eaton) except my brothers, bikes etc.

i went to a party some time back; it was mainly teachers from a local school & they thought i was less than the shit on their shoes, they really thought they were something-They 'had a vocation' & they were important in young people's lives etc.

me? I got on with their manual work, doing the bbq, spitting on their burgers & drinking their booze.
nobody asked me what i did for a living cos i wasn't a teacher at their school and therefore I had no value.

I hated teaching in schools, it was too fekkin noisy, so, I got better educated, taught in colleges, universities. In those jobs i had to re educate people to learn, to learn for themselves, to learn for fun & to better themselves. that re-ducation was in stark contrast to their schooling.

I got paid well for this but not as well as i got paid in industry-there too, i had to re educate people to learn, to learn for themselves, to learn for fun & to better themselves.

after ten years they paid me to fuck off & that's why i'm retired.

YOU too could do this.

don't give me bollix by BTW that you're taking a noble stand being a scab: you still get the benefits from your colleagues taking a stand, you win if they win, you win if they lose...except you didn't lose any pay gaining the benefits that those teachers before you fought so hard to get.

if and its a big if you believe so passionately about what you do, start a free school, it cant be that hard if the govt is throwing money at people to do this.

ps. you & those teachers above are deluding yourself if you think you are that important to the kids you push around & corral into conformity: I remember 3 teachers from school. 1 i'd shake his hand & 2 i'd punch into next week...they were bullies & cowards who liked being important around those who could not answer back.

that is how most of us remember teachers.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:10 PM
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I think there are two sides to this..

I know of 10 year old kids who can't do their 2 times table..(they call it doubling now)..and yesterday I heard from another 10 year old who when asked by the class teacher what the word defer meant, one boy stood up and said it means to agree with anothers point of view..he was told no..it means to be different,,as in "this one is defer to that one" when the boy said to differ means to have an opposite point of view as in "I beg to differ" he was once again told to sit down and pay attention..

That's another kid's mind destroyed..

But I also blame the system, we don't teach our kids properly at school, some of these kids grow up to become teachers and then the authorities put them in schools and give them guidelines on how they must teach to allow for their lack of education..

It seems to me that each teacher does what they have to each term and then passes the resulting class on to the next year..If that class failed to understand all the primary teaching then they have little chance of understanding the secondary classes..

I also think that just prior to exam time the class is coached on how to pass the exam rather than tested on what they should have learned during the previous terms..

At the local primary school the attitude of teachers and head teacher is that it will adversely affect the child if you tell them they are not doing well, so they get "well done" to the child and "he's doing quite well" to the parents at the end of term parents night..

meantime your kid is a mindless husk who thinks he is clever..

Until we have a much better education for our youngsters we will not have very good teachers because the teachers should have been taught when they were children. We have lost at least two generations to bad schooling and todays children have nothing better than state handouts to look forward to.

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Old 03-10-2013, 04:39 PM
devon-tony devon-tony is offline
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LOL oh yeah forgot about competitions and races etc where nobody wins LOL LOL

yup that will prepare them for the real world

they have the opinion that they dont have to try or succeed, as they will get a sweet or a medal anyway

they had a sports day at my lil girls school, my daughters team won, I took great joy at this and mentioned to one of her mates that wasnt in her team that if my Abi was a winner then she must have lost.. just joking and teasing

she burst into tears LOL, never been told that she had failed or lost at something.

we are creating a generation of pathetic kids with no real aspirations to achieve anything, and as far as I can see its all caused by nambi pamby hand wringing tree hugging soap dodgers.

my lil girl gets praised when she does well and I rip the shit out of her when she does wrong or messes something up, other parents say Im mean and nasty, well tough shit, my lil girl understands and realises that lifes not a computer game. right from when she was a baby and toddler, if she had friends round and kids were having sweets or treats, every now and then I would say sorry Abi, none left for you, your friends had them all, oh the shit I got from other kids parents, yet she always said thats ok, I dont mind, much later many of her mates parents reckoned I wasnt so mean as they all had kids that expected something everytime and wouldnt use manners.

we took one of her mates out withus one day, this girl is about 10, I commented that I didnt have enough money on me for something that my Abi was looking at, no problems daddy she says, I dont care, was only looking.

her mate said, why not just use a card if you havent got any money, tried to explain that it was still money but she just didnt get it LOL

they are so removed from the real world that its a joke.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:26 PM
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Mick - solidarity is a two way thing. I voted against the strike in the ballot; in previous issues I have gone on strike to support the NUT. When I contacted them about mistreatment in the workplace, I received a notification that my contact had been received, and precisely nothing despite two follow up emails. As far as the NUT seem to be concerned, big headline grabbing acts, etc, are their priority; day to day support is of no concern to them. So, solidarity is fine if its reciprocated.

Devon Tony. You are right that the education system fails kids. The obsession with measuring everything and dishing out blame when the numbers don't meet expectations is the root cause (which isn't entirely a left wing concept). Teachers are expected to make a class full of kids achieve a specific level. Nobody cares that each class full of kids is different. So "teaching" now revolves around manufacturing the result and ensuring the kids never fail regardless of how little they do. The real world is an awfully big shock to them. But by then they're no longer the problem of the department of education, who sit all smug because their targets were met.

Target setting has essentially killed off any hope of meeting the kids needs (ironic as it is supposed to measure how well you meet the needs of the kids). There is so much admin involved in teaching that my institution actually employs more admin staff than teachers. Those admin staff collate information, but it is up to the teachers to generate the information in the first place. I various "holiday" times I have managed to complete a full week of work (37hrs) without teaching one class or marking one bit of work. My institution has now had to add "admin days" where there are no lessons (easy coz we're a sixth form so the students don't need parents at home, etc) because there isn't enough time in the rest of the year to do all the admin and, you know, actually teach anything.

I'm saying this because people don't know this side of the job. They see that some kids didn't get enough or the right kind of support (like in Chopper's post) or that their kids weren't pushed enough (like Rob's post); and its the paperwork that ensures you don't have time to do both. People also fail to grasp the idea that grades achieved are supposed to be an indication of the talents of the student, not a measurement of the talents of the teacher.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:04 PM
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It seems to me that a small percentage of children will be intellegent enough to suck up information almost in spite of the low standards of schooling, I can't help wondering how much more they would have learned if the teaching was a bit better..There should be a filter where children are taught all the different subjects until they show signs of falling behind, then there should be a point where they stop teaching History, current affairs, religion, geography, sport foreign languages, music and social studies..This is when the schools should concentrate on maths and English until the children have reached a high standard in those subjects..

Why..

Because history is not important to anyone who has to ask "do you want fries with that", if you want to know more, watch world at war or time team on TV. current affairs, kids will learn more by watching the news on TV. Religion..sorry but as far as I am concerned, once you have learned to read, you can learn all you want to from one book. Geography, the borders have changed so much and the names of cities have also changed that almost everything I leaned at school is wrong. Sport..that is just playing games, do it after school or during playtime. Foreign languages, if you leave school unable to get a job you aren't going to travel to a foreign country and there are so many different languages spoken in Britain that it would take years to just learn enough to understand basic words..English is our language, if you want to talk to me..learn it. Music, a hobby, do it in your own time, like riding a bike or skateboarding. and finally social studies, look out of your window, talk to your friends and neighbours, talk to your granny about when she was young..what more do you need to know..

Until the DOE realises and accepts that we have a problem and that the solution is fairly simple our schools will continue to produce morons who have learned to copy people on the TV, even down to the way they speak what is left of our language.

It is possible that the government encourages this dumbing down so that the rich and priviledged few who can afford private education get the lions share of the top jobs, and the old boy network can run the country and get richer by keeping us dumb enough to believe everything they say "because it is the right thing to do" or "Britain deserves better" or "it is time for change" or "we are all in this together"..

John.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:57 PM
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my son had the day off school yesterday because of the strike i also had to take the day off work too to look after him im not moaning about it i dont know the ins and outs of it all to be honest with you really but my mum a dad are both retired teachers and they worked fucking hard! just because the school kicks out at 330 ish on a friday dosent mean thats it and fuck it till monday morning they often worked doing marking reports etc at home etc till 10 at night in the hols too and thats before all health a saftey bollocks and paper work the teachers have to do now my dad left teaching when you couldnt get away with giving the kids a good talking too!! (or a tap round the head which a lot of them deserve) which they cant do now because every parent thinks there "little johnny" is perfect and woudnt cause any trouble a lot of parents love blaming someone a teacher maybe thats an easy target isnt it? its easy to blame some one else for there kids poor education manners attitude etc alot off parents cant be arsed to spend anytime with there kids cuz there to busy working or they just dont give a fuck rant over education begins at home ................when i left school in 95 there was 20 kids in my class in my 11 year olds sons class there is 33 imagine trying to teach that lot imagine working in a factory and the work load almost doubled and there was no extra staff you just have to get on with it and do your best or would you moan about it and strike for better pay pensions etc if you could?
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:11 AM
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John raises some good points.
All-round education is good to start with so you can begin to see where a child has talents and weaknesses and play to those. I'm rubbish at maths,so engineering is out; but wouldn't have known that if I hadn't had to go thru trig, pythag, and the rest.

One of the teachers at my college has just completed a Masters degree. She joined an existing project and worked towards gaining the qualification rather than it being her project (so she had no agenda to prove with the results). One of the side-points of the project looked at teaching "standards" as set by OFSTED and internal performance reviews and their impact on student performance. The discovery was that terrible teaching (ie: persistent absence, doesn't know the subject, has no control over class) can be quite destructive to grades, but only at GCSE level and above (it makes virtually no difference lower down). Similarly, the most spectacular teacher made a difference of less than a grade over the competent-but-unispiring teacher. 90% of the time the kid will get the grade they get regardless of the teacher. Thus, using achieved grades as a measurement of teaching skill is both flawed and makes a mockery of the point of the qualification in the first place.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:08 AM
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No, I didn't miss the point. You are a selfish boring cunt, fucking greedy as well. It is you teachers that are missing the point.

The cold hard fact is that a hell of a lot of teachers are failing miserably. What cold hard fact? Your personal opinion based upon a very limited experience of the industry? NO, my comment was based on what I can and have seen in years of working for a living and meeting a lot of youngsters that are only semi literate. They allow kids to leave school, without the basic minimum of literacy and numeracy skills, to enable them to get some sort of job. By the time a kid leaves formal education, he should be ready to take his/her first steps into the big wide world

And after 10 years of mandatory education, can you really claim that any kid still unable to meet basic literacy standards has been failed by every single teacher they encountered in this time, or could it just be that the kid themselves (or parents) should have taken more responsibility for their progress?. Very few of them are ready and it is teachers to blameYeah, we're to blame becuase kids with a 40% attendance record and parents quite willing to go to court instead of sending their kids to school is a perfect definition of teacher failings.

Yes I can claim that teachers are to blame. Although I was virtually uncontrollable at school, I knew, even then, that there were some teachers that were truly inspirational. They MADE kids WANT to learn. They challenged them, lessons were fun and something to look forward to. That is what is missing today. I refused point blank to attend French or Divinity lessons. I had zero interest and hated the teachers, because they could not put across anything that even slightly interested me. Those two teachers were shite teachers, they were an exception. The teachers at all of the schools I attended, earned the respect of the kids. You watched your manners and behaviour or you were in deep shit.

Teachers today have no idea how to earn the respect of their pupils. As a direct result of that, they are unable to control themselves never mind a class of kids.

Teachers are too busy moaning about how bad they are treated and paid, to bother attempting to communicate with parents properly and work together to get the kids to study. Why does any kid skive off school? Pretty simple answer, he/she has found something he/she would rather be doing. If teachers make the WANT to be at school and WANT to learn. The number of truants would diminish rapidly.


Start doing the job properly, treat every child as an individual, match his or her needs to lessons

This is already industry standard. All kids have an entry profile, they are tested for all known learning conditions and relevant support is established. All kids have a personalised individual education plan that accounts for their skills on entry and progress path. All of this is tracked and monitored every year of school with reports generated. And that's just the basics. On top of that there are remedial classes, stretch and challenge classes, exam resit assistnace, after school homework assistnace, the list goes on.

Absolute bollocks. Fancy names and gobshite. If you really had to do all that shit for every kid, how much attention do you give to each pupil? Name at top of page and a load of tick boxes. Kids are individuals, no two are alike. You teachers just find it easier to treat them all the same because you can't be arsed to do the job you are being over paid to do.

Stop fucking about calling subjects by different names and putting priority on PC bullshit, such as teaching white Anglo Saxon kids about being a muslim. START FUCKING TEACHING. Make sure our kids leave school with the basic knowledge and skills they NEED, NOT what a bunch of left wing sad fucks think they need. No white Anglo Saxon kid needs to learn anything about being a muslim, or a queer, but they do need to know how to read, write and do their sums. [COLOR="magenta"]Teachers have ZERO input over course content. You wanna whinge about kids being taught X, Y, and Z, go moan to the dpeartment of education who decide all this stuff. At the moment you're metaphorically complaining to the drive-thru staff at Mcdonalds about the company's farming practices.

Now if you really believe that crap, you are proving your inadequacy as well as being a whinging, selfish cunt. If the teachers are not able to have any input on course content, then "teachers" are surplus to requirements. Maybe if you all got off your arses and spent time challenging the DOE about their tactics and demands, you may be able to change what is wrong with the system. Oh! Hang on, it's more important to you to whinge about YOUR situation, than it is to at least make an attempt to improve the situation for the people YOU are responsible for their education. In simple terms, IF THE SYSTEM IS FUCKED, CHANGE THE FUCKING SYSTEM!

In the real world you have to match performance with demands. You bunch of left wing sad fucks I'm not left wing. Never was never will be are only interested in what the country will cough up to those of you that have not earned it. YOU NUT members are more interested in yourselves, than doing your job properly. If you can't hack it, then get the fuck out of the profession Yeah, because this profession is so 'cozy' that there's queues around the block of people clammering to get in and almost no one quits the profession after less than 3 years. Oh, wait, neither of those things is true! Teaching applications are way down and staff turnover at the 3 year mark (out of the profession entirely) is one of the worst of any industry going. You knew the score when you became a "Teacher". You cannot expect the rules to change after you join (actually, I'm arguing to keep the rules like they were when I joined; rahter than haviung them changed for the benefit of people who already have all the wealth - who was that you were calling greedy?). If you are a good teacher, you will always have work and an income. If you want your income to increase, then work harder, achieve higher results If hard work produced better results, there'd be no need for private education. Low class sizes and a supportive homelife of the students have a mssively bigger impact on grades achieved than the teacher themselves (demonstrated in numerous academic studies) and you may have a case to plead.

That's called passing the buck. Kids go to school to be formally educated, by teachers. What happens outside school is up to the parents. Have you considered that maybe some parents cannot see the point in sending a kid to school, if all they are doing is parrot fashion chanting for several hours a day, about subjects that some idiotic PC fuckwit thinks is more important than basic literacy and numeracy skills.

Your comments about wealth, suggest you are perhaps a tad jealous of those that have made a good living by their efforts. Another good indication of inadequacy. There are very few extremely wealthy families around nowadays that inherit their wealth. It is a very small minority of people that land on their feet by accident, Lottery winners, X Factor, footballers etc aside. Most well off people have earned their wealth by hard work, innovation, ingenuity and determination.



A response for you to ignore and call me a cunt for

There ya go. I didn't ignore your response, BUT I did ignore the many typo's and spelling mistakes

However, you are still a cunt. Some things will never change.

Chopper



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Old 05-10-2013, 03:50 AM
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Strikes me that if you KNOW so much, Chopper, you should be training teachers.

Or is talking about it easier than doing it?


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Old 05-10-2013, 06:08 AM
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FFS!

Be thankful you've got a fucking job!

I've been out of work 5 years, but because my missus took early retirement, I can't claim any dole money in any shape or form because I have an "alternative source of income!".

I'm lucky I don't have a mortgage to worry about but I still have to live, so I've been forced to cash in a couple of private pensions. Which is another whole story, of being screwed by the FSA and Insurance firms, which aint worth going into here!

Teachers and civil servants should work in the real world and stop moaning about their Final Salary Pensions, other working conditions. They're lucky to get bloody payrise! A lot of employees have to either take pay cuts or even reduce to a four day week in some cases. Or suffer the indignity of bening made redundant, and having to sign on!

I've lost count of the number of jobs I've applied for, to be told " Sorry you don't have the relevant experience for the post!"

What a load of bollocks!
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:23 AM
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So your misbehaviour as a kid is not the fault of you or your parents, but the teachers you had? Psychologists would call the attribution bias - it's never your fault is it?
Schools can no longer use canes, expulsions, or suspensions (without LEA grief) and there have been a few court cases about the legality of after-school detentions. So, with no meaningful disciplinary system left, how exactly are teachers supposed to "earn that respect"? By shouting at the kids? Worked for you did it?
One thing that seems to have passed you by Chopper is that teachers are just the frontline staff, they don't set education policy, they don't set exam requirements or assessment criteria, they don't set subject specifications. All that was absorbed into the DOE with the National Curriculum in the '80s. Since then, teachers and senior staff have railed at the government for relentlessly pissing about with stuff they don't understand. But each education secretary wants to make a name for themselves so they get promoted in the Cabinet. Thus, they decide what I teach - even if I worked in the Private sector (assuming I want official recognition of the qualifications).
You complain about poor teaching and educational standards, but your solution to this is to make the conditions of employment worse. I'm not sure how you think that'd help?
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:02 AM
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Strikes me that if you KNOW so much, Chopper, you should be training teachers.

Or is talking about it easier than doing it?


Absolutely fuck all to do with my comments/opinion.

I have taught people to drive military and civilian vehicles, taught people how to sell all kinds of products and for over 30 years I have taught people how to use BDSM equipment. Does that count?

I have never had any desire to be a school teacher. The thought of trying to teach, mind fucked, PC tree huggers, to do anything, is enough to make me feel that sucking vomit through a fat slags thong is a viable option.

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Old 05-10-2013, 01:26 PM
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Unless you've taught people 30 at a time, half of whom would rather be somewhere else, then no.

Trouble with this subject is that everyone is a fucking expert. We've all been to school, most have kids that were/are at school. So that clearly makes them experts....

Try teaching people summat they consider irrellevent, because some desk-jockey in a nice safe office has TOLD you to. See how far you get.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
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Trouble with this subject is that everyone is a fucking expert. We've all been to school, most have kids that were/are at school. So that clearly makes them experts....
+1. I now feel really sorry for NHS staff where "patient reviews" is gonna encourage another raft of armchair experts who think they know how to run a hospital because they've been to one.
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:41 PM
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Default i backed off from this...

i backed off from this...

because there was a possibility that i just might end up giving a shite ((c) KevIN Bridges) but also cos i knew in my bones that you fenrir like the teachers I described above: thought you were something special...

you are NOT.
the world you thought you knew/I knew is no more, all you are, like anybody else nowadays, is, is a wage slave. your job is to hold on to the kids until they can become a debtor to the world, your job is to train them to accept this as normal, to train them to obey, to listen to pricks like you who think they are special just because for a few years you have 'care & control'

& dont tell me you dont think this, because you cant even be arsed to fight for better terms & conditions, to fight the status quo.

if you'd read what i'd written, i was suggesting there was a way out for you, a way out to a better, better paid, better terms & conditions & a future where you didnt have to work but could enjoy this short life we have...

but no, you didnt read that, YOU are holding on to: 'why can't everybody see that i'm special' & pay me what I believe i'm owed.

the only people allowed that nowadays are politicians. THEY got a pay rise, they got great terms & conditions...why? because they gave up teaching.
gave up being lawyers, gave up whatever they did because they saw the real gravy train: being a politician.

if you were bright you might just see this.

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Old 05-10-2013, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
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So your misbehaviour as a kid is not the fault of you or your parents, but the teachers you had? Psychologists would call the attribution bias - it's never your fault is it?

Now where and when the fuck did I make that claim? I freely admit to being an absolute fucking nightmare at school. My reason for this is actually none of your fucking business. However, the only thing worse than not having a father was having my stepfather, whom I hated with a passion you can only dream of. Unfortunately the sad twisted cunt is still alive.

Schools can no longer use canes, expulsions, or suspensions (without LEA grief) and there have been a few court cases about the legality of after-school detentions. So, with no meaningful disciplinary system left, how exactly are teachers supposed to "earn that respect"? By shouting at the kids? Worked for you did it?

If your idea of earning respect from school kids is to use a stick to beat them with, no wonder you are feeling inadequate. Judging from this comment alone, you have not tried to actually make your lessons, interesting, informative, creative and a time and place where a youngster wants to be. CP at school was a sanction for bad behaviour, not an aid to teaching.

One thing that seems to have passed you by Chopper is that teachers are just the frontline staff, they don't set education policy, they don't set exam requirements or assessment criteria, they don't set subject specifications. All that was absorbed into the DOE with the National Curriculum in the '80s. Since then, teachers and senior staff have railed at the government for relentlessly pissing about with stuff they don't understand. But each education secretary wants to make a name for themselves so they get promoted in the Cabinet. Thus, they decide what I teach - even if I worked in the Private sector (assuming I want official recognition of the qualifications).

So how many "Teachers" have got off their collective arses and told the government or DOE, that what they are doing is wrong, detrimental to kids and their education? I may have missed the industrial action taken by NUT, to protest the fact that the DOE was getting it wrong. Maybe that's because teachers come from the same mould as cops that claim they are only doing their job when they harass bikers. (I do recall that the same pathetic excuse was used by Nazi War Criminals at the Nuremburg war crimes trials. The Nazi death camp guards claimed that they were only following orders. It didn't wash then either.

You complain about poor teaching and educational standards, but your solution to this is to make the conditions of employment worse. I'm not sure how you think that'd help?
As I said earlier, it is YOU that has missed the point. Moaning about something, without offering an alternative is simply moaning. Nothing positive, encouraging or motivating. My answer is to get teachers to improve their performance THEN, you can talk from a position of strength. At the moment you are just whining like a fucked up two stroke and it is boring.

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