100% Biker & Trike Magazine Forums

Go Back   100% Biker & Trike Magazine Forums > 100% Biker > The Workshop

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-07-2010, 07:39 PM
once a bike now a trike once a bike now a trike is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 26
Default wiring

A big hi to everyone,
Im new to the forum as you can see and need some help on rewiring,

I bought a trike recently half Kawasaki half reliant robin
Back end reliant 850cc / front end Kawasaki Z600,

When the trike was bought the engine / gear box had been removed by previous owner, all the wires disconnected and not labelled,
Engine has now been rebuilt / gear box checked & new clutch,

The wiring loom with the trike was made to the previous
Owners spec, e.g. extra lights / switches and so on which he removed when sold,

Now hereís my problem, once the engine & gearbox was fitted back in no connections from the wiring loom matched with the engine
E, G ignition switch /starter / solenoid / alternator / temp sensor / oil sensor,

Most of the wiring E,G lights / starter / ignition switch, i can cope with as there
Straight forward, the main problems I have is the alternator temp & oil sensor,

Iíve been told that the live return from the alternator for charging the battery can go directly to the battery as long as there is a 12v fuse in line,
Now this concerns me as this would mean 12v is being put through the alternator
24 / 7 / and also 12v being pushed back to the battery when running, ??

can anyone help with my problem,


once a bike now a trike
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-07-2010, 09:14 PM
harry's Avatar
harry harry is offline
Techno Guru! He's Good! He Knows Everyfink!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Taunton
Posts: 3,399
Default

I can explain the alternator / Battery wiring.

What you have been told is correct.

The alternator has a rectifier which is made of Diodes, these are like one way valves and wont allow the battery to push electric back into the alternator.
In fact one quick test for a duff rectifier is that the alternator may be hot when the engine has not been running, because it now can leak back through the Alternator.

A fuse is a good idea.

As for he battery receiving 12 volts when the engine is running. Yup that's how the alternator charges the battery in fact the voltage should be about
14v.
__________________
si is does non opportunus vos postulo a maior pango

Last edited by harry; 08-07-2010 at 09:16 PM. Reason: I can't tyep
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-07-2010, 09:52 PM
northernpesant's Avatar
northernpesant northernpesant is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bromsgrove
Posts: 269
Default

agree with harry in most part but which z 600 are we looking at.
More to the point How many wires come out of the alternator and what colour are they.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-07-2010, 06:25 AM
once a bike now a trike once a bike now a trike is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by northernpesant View Post
agree with harry in most part but which z 600 are we looking at.
More to the point How many wires come out of the alternator and what colour are they.
thanks for the help, theres no wires coming from the alternater just 3 push on Bayonet connections 2 big and one small

once a bike now a trike
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-07-2010, 09:12 AM
Glyn aka Kingo's Avatar
Glyn aka Kingo Glyn aka Kingo is offline
Talk, Type, Breath, Talk, Type, Breath....
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Machynlleth
Posts: 4,231
Default

Odie is the man to talk to he is a whizz on electrics, he rewired my old trike for me.
__________________
NEC ASPER TERRENT
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-07-2010, 11:47 AM
harry's Avatar
harry harry is offline
Techno Guru! He's Good! He Knows Everyfink!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Taunton
Posts: 3,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by once a bike now a trike View Post
thanks for the help, theres no wires coming from the alternater just 3 push on Bayonet connections 2 big and one small

once a bike now a trike
My first post was misleading, forgot to point out that there's two types of Alternator.......One wiv a built in reg/rec and 'tother with a seperate Reg/rec.

Where there is a seperate Regulator/ rectifier my comments apply to that rather than the Alternator.

But it sounds to me that you have the "car type" alternator that has it all built in.

You need to know for definate which sort you have before you start.
__________________
si is does non opportunus vos postulo a maior pango
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-07-2010, 07:26 PM
John Hopkins's Avatar
John Hopkins John Hopkins is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tredegar, South Wales
Posts: 16,062
Default

Iíve been told that the live return from the alternator for charging the battery can go directly to the battery as long as there is a 12v fuse in line,
Now this concerns me as this would mean 12v is being put through the alternator
24 / 7 / and also 12v being pushed back to the battery when running, ??

I can see what is bothering you, you think you are getting A/C from the alternator and this would make short work of a battery...This could be true if the alternator does not have a rectifier and regulator (reg/rec) built in as already explained...The rectifier changes to A/C voltage to DC so that it will charge the battery and the regulator stops too much of that voltage from cooking the battery..If these are built into the alternator there is usually a lump on the side of the alternator but on very modern vehicles the regulation is controlled by the ECU...unlikely on a trike..

John
__________________
Beauty is skin deep; ugly goes right to the bone
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-07-2010, 08:33 PM
once a bike now a trike once a bike now a trike is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
My first post was misleading, forgot to point out that there's two types of Alternator.......One wiv a built in reg/rec and 'tother with a seperate Reg/rec.

Where there is a seperate Regulator/ rectifier my comments apply to that rather than the Alternator.

But it sounds to me that you have the "car type" alternator that has it all built in.

You need to know for definate which sort you have before you start.
im not sure of the make but here a pic / and info on the unit,
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-07-2010, 08:50 PM
4_stroke 4_stroke is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Leicester
Posts: 415
Default

OK wiring this alternator in is easy.

The BIG connector goes straight to the battery, no need to fuse. It needs to be substantial wire such as the battery connector you can buy in Halfords

The small connector goes to 12 volts through an indicator bulb. The indicator bulb serves 2 purposes. 1) it tells you if the alternator is charging and 2) it primes the field coils. If you don't have a bulb connected it won't charge. You can use a fuse in this circuit.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-07-2010, 08:52 PM
once a bike now a trike once a bike now a trike is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4_stroke View Post
OK wiring this alternator in is easy.

The BIG connector goes straight to the battery, no need to fuse. It needs to be substantial wire such as the battery connector you can buy in Halfords

The small connector goes to 12 volts through an indicator bulb. The indicator bulb serves 2 purposes. 1) it tells you if the alternator is charging and 2) it primes the field coils. If you don't have a bulb connected it won't charge. You can use a fuse in this circuit.

thats great thanks for your help
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-07-2010, 08:53 PM
harry's Avatar
harry harry is offline
Techno Guru! He's Good! He Knows Everyfink!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Taunton
Posts: 3,399
Default

Great thats a lucas acr alternator

The two big terminals both need to connect to the battery live, use heavy cable.

the little terminal needs to go to a small bulb and 'tother side of bulb needs to go to an ignition live ie a wire that is live when the ign is on.

If you can put the bulb where it's visible so much the better 'cos it's the charge warning light (commonly called Ign lamp).
Car accesory shops sell little warning lamps in various colours.

OOPS 4 Stroke beat me to it LOL
__________________
si is does non opportunus vos postulo a maior pango

Last edited by harry; 09-07-2010 at 08:56 PM. Reason: took too long
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-07-2010, 03:23 PM
once a bike now a trike once a bike now a trike is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
Great thats a lucas acr alternator

The two big terminals both need to connect to the battery live, use heavy cable.

the little terminal needs to go to a small bulb and 'tother side of bulb needs to go to an ignition live ie a wire that is live when the ign is on.

If you can put the bulb where it's visible so much the better 'cos it's the charge warning light (commonly called Ign lamp).
Car accesory shops sell little warning lamps in various colours.

OOPS 4 Stroke beat me to it LOL
would like to say thanks for your help everyone but could do with some more help on the coil & distributor side as well,
from what i remember from old, the ign live goes to the distributor + then to the coil + then coil to earth,
is this right or am i complety wrong

thanks rod
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-07-2010, 04:35 PM
harry's Avatar
harry harry is offline
Techno Guru! He's Good! He Knows Everyfink!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Taunton
Posts: 3,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by once a bike now a trike View Post
would like to say thanks for your help everyone but could do with some more help on the coil & distributor side as well,
from what i remember from old, the ign live goes to the distributor + then to the coil + then coil to earth,
is this right or am i complety wrong

thanks rod
Nope that's a dead short.

Ignition switch to coil +ve or live or batt. Marked terminal.

'tother side of coil -ve to points.

If the coil says "Use with ballast" or similar it's more complex but we can do that too.
__________________
si is does non opportunus vos postulo a maior pango
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-07-2010, 04:57 PM
4_stroke 4_stroke is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Leicester
Posts: 415
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
Nope that's a dead short.

Ignition switch to coil +ve or live or batt. Marked terminal.

'tother side of coil -ve to points.

If the coil says "Use with ballast" or similar it's more complex but we can do that too.
Here are some good bits of info

Ballast resistor systems
http://www.calverst.com/articles/EL-...ed_systems.htm

Ignition system circuit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_system
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 13-07-2010, 07:07 PM
once a bike now a trike once a bike now a trike is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 26
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by once a bike now a trike View Post
A big hi to everyone,
Im new to the forum as you can see and need some help on rewiring,

I bought a trike recently half Kawasaki half reliant robin
Back end reliant 850cc / front end Kawasaki Z600,

When the trike was bought the engine / gear box had been removed by previous owner, all the wires disconnected and not labelled,
Engine has now been rebuilt / gear box checked & new clutch,

The wiring loom with the trike was made to the previous
Owners spec, e.g. extra lights / switches and so on which he removed when sold,

Now hereís my problem, once the engine & gearbox was fitted back in no connections from the wiring loom matched with the engine
E, G ignition switch /starter / solenoid / alternator / temp sensor / oil sensor,

Most of the wiring E,G lights / starter / ignition switch, i can cope with as there
Straight forward, the main problems I have is the alternator temp & oil sensor,

Iíve been told that the live return from the alternator for charging the battery can go directly to the battery as long as there is a 12v fuse in line,
Now this concerns me as this would mean 12v is being put through the alternator
24 / 7 / and also 12v being pushed back to the battery when running, ??

can anyone help with my problem,


once a bike now a trike


Thanks for everyoneís help and patients here but im totally lost,

The only wiring loom i have on the trike now is the back lights & the front switches
On the bars, everything else is gone, the reason being, nothing worked,
E.G, trace a green wire, it would then go to white / blue & red and then black so many joins
Complete nightmare,

Has anyone got a reliant manual they could sell me, or just photocopies of the wiring diagram pages please,

Over the last 3 nights for about 4 hours each night Iíve been trying to find info on the net regarding the wiring on the / temp sensor / oil sender / fuel gauge / fuses and so on, it has a fuse box fitted but what size fuse goes where?,

If this was a mechanical problem then no problem,
But when it comes to wiring im no good and I think i bit off more then I can chew

If anyone can help would be much appreciated
rod
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 14-07-2010, 07:44 AM
harry's Avatar
harry harry is offline
Techno Guru! He's Good! He Knows Everyfink!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Taunton
Posts: 3,399
Default

Let's see if this works




Don't say I never do anything for ya
Attached Images
 
__________________
si is does non opportunus vos postulo a maior pango
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 14-07-2010, 06:10 PM
once a bike now a trike once a bike now a trike is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 26
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
Let's see if this works




Don't say I never do anything for ya

thats great, just what i needed cheers mate,
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 15-07-2010, 10:25 PM
harry's Avatar
harry harry is offline
Techno Guru! He's Good! He Knows Everyfink!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Taunton
Posts: 3,399
Default

Hope this is helpful. I've simplified it taking out the wipers heater blower and heated rear screen.

Bit of colour helps. The wiring colurs are the old british standard which I like.
It works like this Brown is live straight off the battery. Purple is the same but fused. White is off Ign live and green through another fuse. Red is side lamps blue headlamps. The temp gauge wire therefore is green with a blue tracer (stripe) and the oil pressure wire is green with brown tracer.

I've put in two brake switches in case you run two braking systems.

The heavy red cables from battery to starter solenoid the engine and battery earth cables have to be starter cable. I would earth the engine even if it is not rubber mounted.

Some of the lucas alternators require two brown cables due to the way they sense battery voltage so it's best to put one in. A fuse for the alternator is optional but the wires run very close to the exhaust. If you put one in it has to be a biggun 35 amp min. and close to the battery.

Good luck
Attached Images
 
__________________
si is does non opportunus vos postulo a maior pango
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 16-07-2010, 08:03 PM
once a bike now a trike once a bike now a trike is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
Hope this is helpful. I've simplified it taking out the wipers heater blower and heated rear screen.

Bit of colour helps. The wiring colurs are the old british standard which I like.
It works like this Brown is live straight off the battery. Purple is the same but fused. White is off Ign live and green through another fuse. Red is side lamps blue headlamps. The temp gauge wire therefore is green with a blue tracer (stripe) and the oil pressure wire is green with brown tracer.

I've put in two brake switches in case you run two braking systems.

The heavy red cables from battery to starter solenoid the engine and battery earth cables have to be starter cable. I would earth the engine even if it is not rubber mounted.

Some of the lucas alternators require two brown cables due to the way they sense battery voltage so it's best to put one in. A fuse for the alternator is optional but the wires run very close to the exhaust. If you put one in it has to be a biggun 35 amp min. and close to the battery.

Good luck

Thanks mate, I owe you a beer or two, this has made it so easy to follow,
this has now saved me god knows how many hours to work out,

I will keep you posted on how it goes hoping to get working on the loom this weekend,

Once again thanks for your time and help, youíre a diamond for doing this

rod
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 16-07-2010, 08:59 PM
harry's Avatar
harry harry is offline
Techno Guru! He's Good! He Knows Everyfink!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Taunton
Posts: 3,399
Default

Glad to be of help.

If you get the same amount of fun from your trike as I got from my reliant trike you're in for a good time.
__________________
si is does non opportunus vos postulo a maior pango
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 20-07-2010, 07:40 PM
once a bike now a trike once a bike now a trike is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
Glad to be of help.

If you get the same amount of fun from your trike as I got from my reliant trike you're in for a good time.
Hi Harry,

i said that i would keep you posted and here goes, over the weekend managed to
Rewire 95.5 % of the trike / E, G / new fuse box / all the back lights / the starter & cut off switch from the bars / coil / distributor / alternator / indicators / head lamp / side lights / all very nice done in heat shrink tubing to keep it looking good,

Thanks to your help and the diagram

But one thing im stuck with and hoping for your help again, on the diagram it shows a voltage regulator for the

Temp gauge / temp sender / oil sender / & fuel gauge, can these be wired straight to a 12v supply or do they have to go through this regulator to drop the voltage, I have asked in two auto shops today for a voltage regulator and no one knows what im talking about,

rod
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 20-07-2010, 07:48 PM
harry's Avatar
harry harry is offline
Techno Guru! He's Good! He Knows Everyfink!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Taunton
Posts: 3,399
Default

Haynes called it a regulator.

Normally called a voltage stabiliser. It reduces the voltage to about 9 volts so that the gauges are not affected by fluctuating battery voltage.

They're normally screwed to the back of the speedo (just 'cos it's convenient)

It's a small grey metal box.

Well done thats amazing progress
__________________
si is does non opportunus vos postulo a maior pango
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 21-07-2010, 07:33 PM
once a bike now a trike once a bike now a trike is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
Haynes called it a regulator.

Normally called a voltage stabiliser. It reduces the voltage to about 9 volts so that the gauges are not affected by fluctuating battery voltage.

They're normally screwed to the back of the speedo (just 'cos it's convenient)

It's a small grey metal box.

Well done thats amazing progress


Hi Harry,
Once again thanks mate, I have the voltage regulator ordered, should be with me by
Saturday morning,

Sorry mate, forgot to ask what trike do you have now, and do you do the Brighton burn up in September with the ace cafť reunion, if so, would like to meet you face to face and buy you those 2 beers I owe you,

Regards
rod
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 21-07-2010, 07:54 PM
harry's Avatar
harry harry is offline
Techno Guru! He's Good! He Knows Everyfink!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Taunton
Posts: 3,399
Default

Hi Rod,

Aint got a trike now. Got an ST1100 which I used for work till I was diagnosed with a brain tumour which was removed in January.

DVLA took me licence off me till next January at the best, so I'm grounded.

Only doin' the Bulldog and the Ogri this year and as a passenger.

(in a car but don't tell this lot)

Hope to catch up with ya one day.
__________________
si is does non opportunus vos postulo a maior pango
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.