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Old 15-03-2009, 10:14 AM
Simon B Simon B is offline
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Just read this and thought Id share it

Editorials:

The First Banning of an MCs Colors in the USA


BY: LJ James

USA - The First Banning of a Motorcycle Clubs Colors in the USA If you are a Member of a Motorcycle Club as I am, I'm sure you have heard about how a Judge has banned the Colors of the the Mongols Motorcycle Club. Not only are the Members not allowed to wear their Colors, but any item that's has their Colors on it must be forfeited upon demand. I can not expect many who are not in a Motorcycle Club to understand what this really means! Twenty years ago this would have struck fear into the soul of every American Citizen! Today I am sure most probably will not even hear about it and those that do will probably not care! What has happen to this Country? I can not believe this is actually happening, I have been writing stories on this for years. Part of me had always hoped I was just being paranoid or that all the MCs would some how come together on some level and work out the problems. I have been getting emails on how the Story I wrote last year called "Taken from a History book in the year 2095" does not sound so far fetched any more? Are there Criminals in Motorcycle Clubs? We hear about Drug dealers, Rapists, Murderers in the National Football League and in Major League Baseball everyday. When was the last time you heard of a Biker running a Dogfighting ring? Can a Judge just ban the Logo of a Sports Franchise if its Members are involved in some kind of Criminal activity? You may be saying No because its different. Well I say it is only different because they haven't done it yet! There are the same problems in Motorcycle Clubs that there are in all organizations. The Police force has much more Criminal Activity going on in it then all the Motorcycle Clubs put together! Only Difference is they can bury the Truth! When it comes to Motorcycle Clubs and criminal activity the big difference is, The legend of Motorcycle Clubs is we are America's bad boys and it just sells so dam good. This law can not be allowed to stand!!! I am sure some Sport Bike Clubs and AMA Club's feel they have nothing to fear! I am sure many are thinking this has nothing to do with them, Its only the Outlaw and 1% Clubs! They are thinking this isn't about us "we are the good guys". This always happens this way, take down the top level's first! The other levels will make excuses as to why it is not their fight and stand aside. All Bikers must join the fight now because once they are done with the Outlaw and 1% Clubs, Who do you think they will be looking at Next? Once the Outlaw/ 1% Clubs are gone there will be no one left to come and help when they come for you! I am pretty sure this is still America and this is completely against everything this Country was founded on and stands for! We all must ask, If this ruling is allowed to stand what Motorcycle Club will it be next? Will it be yours? What will the reasons be that they will use to ban your Clubs patch ? Will Jay walking be enough? Is that too ridiculous? How about if your an MC member and you get caught with a bag of weed? Is that enough? Will there have to be two Members involved? Three? What reason will they need to ban your Motorcycle Clubs patch? When Motorcycle Clubs start having their Colors banned many members will start or join new Clubs,Because that is what we are Motorcycle Club Members! Soon the government will realize this and then Ban Motorcycle Clubs all together! Any one who thinks their Club is not at risk is kidding themselves! The time to unite and try to work together was yesterday! Today we have no choice but to ban together and fight for our right to survive for tomorrow it will be time to hide!!! Even if some how all Motorcycle Clubs can come together and work to win this fight, It is just the beginning and there will be many more rounds to come. If we are to win this fight we MUST at least make it threw the first round, Then we will have a Minute to pull ourselves together!!! I am Your Bro L.J. James AmericanBikerX.com
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Old 15-03-2009, 11:27 AM
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So what are they going to do with Tattoo's Most "Club" members I know have their colours in their skin too.
This banning has been predicted for a long time and yes it will target the 3 patch clubs. It's a case of the Biggest kid in the fight gets taken to the headmaster first as he should be setting an example.
This certainly isn't the first example of this, the HA was persecuted in the states before having clubhouses shut down and demolished at random and the police outlawing the clubs activitys, as with Australia in some sectors trying to outlaw clubs.
I cannot imagine the law will be allowed to get away with it for long and it's not the first time a judge has over-reacted.

For example Taken from Bikernews.net




Australia - AUSTRALIA'S most notorious bikie gangs have united in an unprecedented display of solidarity to flout new anti-bikie laws.


Freedom to associate ... rival gang members have joined together to protest anti-bikie laws. Picture: Matt Turner

About 700 members of gangs - including the Hells Angels, Gypsy Jokers, Rebels, Finks and Descendants - today taunted the South Australian Government for enacting laws which effectively outlaw their clubs.
The gangs united in a protest against the laws, converging at Gawler, north of Adelaide, before riding through the state's famed wine growing region, the Barossa Valley.

Describing the laws as un-Australian, the bikies literally stood arm-in-arm with their traditional foes before the protest run, overseen by a massive police presence.

SA Premier Mike Rann described the protest as a publicity stunt which would not intimidate his Government.

"I will not bend or break because of this intimidation," Mr Rann said.

"The run only strengthens my resolve to take the fight up to these gangs."

Mr Rann described SA's Serious and Organised Crime Control Act, enacted last September, as "the world's toughest anti-bikie legislation". The laws are designed to dismantle criminal bikie gangs by declaring illegal the membership or association with individual clubs, which have been outlawed.

The Gypsy Jokers organised today's action, which a club spokesman said was a "peaceful protest and legal protest". The spokesman, who did not want to be named, said the laws "take away the human and civil rights of society - not to just bikies but to anyone and everyone, and any group or organisation that the Government decides or perceives as a threat".

"It won't stop the bikie. We are no different in everyday life to people in other clubs as football clubs, cricket clubs and so on," he said.

"There is good and bad in all walks of life - even the police, judges, press commit crimes.

"Should we impose non-association laws on these associations?

"The Government would have you believe through politics and fear that you should worry about us raping, pillaging, plundering ... while allowing them to take away the rights of people.

"These laws are just not Australian."

But Mr Rann said the protest, dubbed The Freedom Run, was "trying to convince other states not to follow us, it's about intimidation".

"For them, freedom means freedom to manufacture and sell drugs to our kids, it means freedom to be involved in violence, freedom to use illegal firearms and freedom to extort," he said.

"There are elements among these bikies who are dangerous and serious criminals and we will treat them as seriously as they deserve.

"I will not now, nor will I ever, apologise for the strong action this Government has taken."

Opponents of the laws have officially registered a political party, the FREE Australia Party, which was represented at the protest.

Last edited by shaggy696969; 15-03-2009 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 15-03-2009, 12:30 PM
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As I see it the Mongols are a group set up in the 70s by immigrants (Mexicans) because they were not allowed to ride with the Hells Angels. A lot of street gangs in the states terrorise their community and because they wear colours, bandanas, cut offs, tee shirts and tattoos are easily identified, a large percentage of these are hispanic, the states have started a very slow and sparodic clean up of these gangs, hindered by the fact that money from their dealings and fear put into witnesses puts most of them back on the street within hours. So in some towns anyone wearing gang coulours is harrassed. The leader of the Mongols along with 60 members of his club were arrested on various charges and if they hadn't been the ordinary members of the community would have suffered. I wonder how many of those arrested were illegal immigrants and how we would feel if a group of Muslim bikers started a club in this country and sold drugs, prostitutes, and used guns.

These people were just thugs who happened to ride bikes.

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Old 15-03-2009, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Simon B View Post
Just read this and thought Id share it

Editorials:

The First Banning of an MCs Colors in the USA


BY: LJ James

USA - The First Banning of a Motorcycle Clubs Colors in the USA If you are a Member of a Motorcycle Club as I am, I'm sure you have heard about how a Judge has banned the Colors of the the Mongols Motorcycle Club.
Not only are the Members not allowed to wear their Colors, but any item that's has their Colors on it must be forfeited upon demand. I can not expect many who are not in a Motorcycle Club to understand what this really means!

Twenty years ago this would have struck fear into the soul of every American Citizen! Today I am sure most probably will not even hear about it and those that do will probably not care! What has happen to this Country? I can not believe this is actually happening, I have been writing stories on this for years. Part of me had always hoped I was just being paranoid or that all the MCs would some how come together on some level and work out the problems.

I have been getting emails on how the Story I wrote last year called "Taken from a History book in the year 2095" does not sound so far fetched any more? Are there Criminals in Motorcycle Clubs? We hear about Drug dealers, Rapists, Murderers in the National Football League and in Major League Baseball everyday. When was the last time you heard of a Biker running a Dogfighting ring? Can a Judge just ban the Logo of a Sports Franchise if its Members are involved in some kind of Criminal activity? You may be saying No because its different.

Well I say it is only different because they haven't done it yet! There are the same problems in Motorcycle Clubs that there are in all organizations. The Police force has much more Criminal Activity going on in it then all the Motorcycle Clubs put together! Only Difference is they can bury the Truth! When it comes to Motorcycle Clubs and criminal activity the big difference is, The legend of Motorcycle Clubs is we are America's bad boys and it just sells so dam good.

This law can not be allowed to stand!!! I am sure some Sport Bike Clubs and AMA Club's feel they have nothing to fear! I am sure many are thinking this has nothing to do with them, Its only the Outlaw and 1% Clubs! They are thinking this isn't about us "we are the good guys". This always happens this way, take down the top level's first! The other levels will make excuses as to why it is not their fight and stand aside. All Bikers must join the fight now because once they are done with the Outlaw and 1% Clubs, Who do you think they will be looking at Next? Once the Outlaw/ 1% Clubs are gone there will be no one left to come and help when they come for you!

I am pretty sure this is still America and this is completely against everything this Country was founded on and stands for! We all must ask, If this ruling is allowed to stand what Motorcycle Club will it be next? Will it be yours? What will the reasons be that they will use to ban your Clubs patch ? Will Jay walking be enough? Is that too ridiculous? How about if your an MC member and you get caught with a bag of weed? Is that enough? Will there have to be two Members involved? Three? What reason will they need to ban your Motorcycle Clubs patch? When Motorcycle Clubs start having their Colors banned many members will start or join new Clubs,Because that is what we are Motorcycle Club Members!

Soon the government will realize this and then Ban Motorcycle Clubs all together! Any one who thinks their Club is not at risk is kidding themselves! The time to unite and try to work together was yesterday! Today we have no choice but to ban together and fight for our right to survive for tomorrow it will be time to hide!!! Even if some how all Motorcycle Clubs can come together and work to win this fight, It is just the beginning and there will be many more rounds to come. If we are to win this fight we MUST at least make it threw the first round, Then we will have a Minute to pull ourselves together!!! I am Your Bro L.J. James AmericanBikerX.com
there, thats better.
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Old 15-03-2009, 05:13 PM
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If the legal representatives of the various clubs/organisations affected by these proposals have not filed a law suit then they are slipping.

A swift bit of research suggests that any such law banning MC Club members from wearing their patches could be breaching their Freedom of Association and Freedom of Assembly rights as stated in the First Amendment of the constitution of the good ole U.S. of A.

There is also a suggestion that the proposed Law could be in breach of the United Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights. An internationally recognised treaty to which the good ole U.S. of A signed.

So, will they breach their own constitution by implementing this law? I reckon they would.
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Old 15-03-2009, 06:01 PM
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Old 15-03-2009, 07:40 PM
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Not much different to NuLabour then......
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Old 15-03-2009, 07:42 PM
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Not much different to NuLabour then......
And an alternative would be ....................
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Old 15-03-2009, 07:58 PM
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Pass.
The last lot I voted for were the Natural Law party many years back. I dont vote now cos none of the available choices appeal to me.
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Old 15-03-2009, 09:51 PM
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no laws against the crips and bloods though...there far bigger than most ....
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Old 15-03-2009, 09:56 PM
Simon B Simon B is offline
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Originally Posted by John Hopkins View Post
As I see it the Mongols are a group set up in the 70s by immigrants (Mexicans) because they were not allowed to ride with the Hells Angels. A lot of street gangs in the states terrorise their community and because they wear colours, bandanas, cut offs, tee shirts and tattoos are easily identified, a large percentage of these are hispanic, the states have started a very slow and sparodic clean up of these gangs, hindered by the fact that money from their dealings and fear put into witnesses puts most of them back on the street within hours. So in some towns anyone wearing gang coulours is harrassed. The leader of the Mongols along with 60 members of his club were arrested on various charges and if they hadn't been the ordinary members of the community would have suffered. I wonder how many of those arrested were illegal immigrants and how we would feel if a group of Muslim bikers started a club in this country and sold drugs, prostitutes, and used guns.

These people were just thugs who happened to ride bikes.

John
John your facts about the Mongols arent correct, you'll find they where a mainly white club when they started, they have a lot of mexicans in now as they have a lot of ''Street gang members''
Dont get me wrong I AM NO FAN OF THEM,but you have to wonder what sort of precidence this will make?
And this thread has FUCK ALL to do with muslims, and if you cant see the implications of what is happening in Australia, now starting in Amreica its a shame.
Started the thread as I thought it would be of interest to bikers, and not to do with who you vote for, what colour someones skin is or what religion they follow

Last edited by Simon B; 15-03-2009 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 16-03-2009, 12:26 AM
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This thread will go on forever , fact is the Australian goverment seems its fed up with different factions of the biking community , for whatever reason fighting amongst itself , and in some cases members of the public being harmed in the process , so maybe guilty by association , why cant they all get along , then these things maybe would not happen .
Seems we are all bikers , with one common intrest MOTORCYCLES , but even that is dogged with the P word , so now its goverment P who will step in , just a observasion maybe im wrong .
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Old 16-03-2009, 06:47 AM
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The reason I bought up the gubbermint is that it's gubbermints that pass these draconian and utterly outrageous laws. I do not know what the answer is to stopping them, as voting one party out has proved in the past to be simply changing the colour of the tie worn by the incumbent of no 10.
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Old 16-03-2009, 07:21 AM
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This section below from one the Gypsy Jokers sums it all up very well.


"It won't stop the bikie. We are no different in everyday life to people in other clubs as football clubs, cricket clubs and so on," he said.

"There is good and bad in all walks of life - even the police, judges, press commit crimes.

"Should we impose non-association laws on these associations?

"The Government would have you believe through politics and fear that you should worry about us raping, pillaging, plundering ... while allowing them to take away the rights of people.



Think about the way bankers have royally fecked up so many countries and done far more harm on a very wide scale, do laws get passed against them? no the government lends them money. I am by no means saying that MC clubs are full of all wonderful law abiding people that have never done anything wrong, BUT there are certain organisations around the world that would like it very much if the general public thought every member was a threat to society.
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Old 16-03-2009, 08:25 AM
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The similarity's in whats going on is why I posted it Si. Bike clubs are easy to pick on cos they are easy to spot, Summat to do with the way they show their colours, therefore a easy target. Just using the term "Outlaw Biker" to describe 1% clubs is not doing themselves any favours as most would assume its because the clubs operate outside the law. Whilst that may look like a simplistic view remember this is the general populous thats viewing it, and they have no reason to think otherwise.
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Old 16-03-2009, 12:51 PM
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My view is that this type of legislation will soon be coming to these shores. The recent past has put a couple of the major clubs in the public eye for the wrong reasons, and it would be easy to for politicians to smear them on the basis of this. I think the HA were exceptionally lucky to be able to hold the Bulldog this year, in the light of all the other events that were cancelled, and I think they and the other clubs need to concentrate on cultivating the local support with the general public, and a bit less on promoting the outlaw image.
As I understand it, since the death of Maz Harris they have disengaged from MAG, and there is some distrust on either side. The fact remains that MAG, no matter what anyone's personal views on it or its leadership, is the single most effective organisation for representing issues concerning bikers to politicians. Perhaps some of these clubs would be wise to consider choosing a well respected member to represent their interests and engage with such organisations.
I guess the alternative will be difficulties for their membership in associating, and some hefty legal fees defending individual actions.
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Old 16-03-2009, 05:54 PM
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Old 16-03-2009, 09:07 PM
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Bikers are being targeted because we are a visible and high profile target, more crime is done in the back streets of the Stonebridge park estate than by the whole of the biking community in London.

The biking community in this country does have a much lower profile than other countries, not really sure why this is, but we are still the subject of the full force of hate from anyone who takes a dislike to us. The main problem that we, as bikers have, is that we are mostly loners, there are no really big clubs or organisations with enough clout to really stand up for us, the BMF are mostly bank managers now with their own agenda and MAG seems to have lost the plot and faded into the background.

The ordinary bloke in the street does not understand us, in fact in the words of one 'bloke' "You're like pikeys aint yer!" this makes it easy to attack us, anything that is not really understood is easy to make into a threat. THe only way to counter this is to stand up together, but that may not be enough anymore, witness the 'No to bike parking fees' in Westminster, the council have started lying and using smear tactics to counter a ver credible threat to an unfair tax on the biker. They did not expect the reaction they got, but I notice that the first 'bikers' that stood up to fight this were not 'hardcore' just ordinary blokes who use their bikes for getting to work and a load of scooter riders (and some very pretty girls which surprised me! plus a few actors and famous people) but they are being smeared as 'bikers' who have committed acts of vandalism and threatened councilors, no evidence has been produced for any of the allegations, and publicity has actually for once been very good.
This has not stopped the council officers making allegations that are plainly ridiculous, but important people are listening to them, people who make laws and set policy, if this little area wins in getting the charges as a legit fee, then the other councils around the country waiting in the wings will use the prescedent to charge for bike in their areas as well.

Now this may seem like small beans in comparison to banning patches, but its where it all starts, they chip away a bit at a time, "Look they let that slide, maybe they will this as well!" bit by bit our freedoms are being eroded, not just as bikers, but as supposedly free men.

If all bikers rose up and protested EVeRYTIME we were trod on, THEY would find new targets and leave us alone, but eventually they will find ways to crush us, believe it, it will happen.
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Old 16-03-2009, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
The main problem that we, as bikers have, is that we are mostly loners, there are no really big clubs or organisations with enough clout to really stand up for us, the BMF are mostly bank managers now with their own agenda and MAG seems to have lost the plot and faded into the background.
First point I'd make is what is the corporate side doing - the MCIA? Surely they realise its in their interests to support bikers interests, and to defend against policies that make biking less attractive, and therefore less sales for them. They haven't been exactly vocal from what I can see.

Secondly, I'm interested to hear on what you base your opinions of the riders rights organisations, Pyro. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, just asking why you've formed that opinion.

Regarding your other post, on the bike parking tax, what is the involvement of any of the above in the fight against that?

My personal opinion is that it is the BMF that has lost the plot, and a great deal of support, following internal spats, and that it was always more corporate. IMO MAG represents better grass roots bikers, and with the financial crisis as a number of "motorcyclists" liquidate their toys, the more traditional bikers will continue as before. However I do find it laughable that an organisation that was founded on the principle of "let the rider decide", in opposition to the compulsion to wear helmets, should choose as its corporate logo what? - 2 helmets!!! A triumph of branding over common sense.
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Old 16-03-2009, 10:26 PM
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Old 17-03-2009, 07:44 AM
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First point I'd make is what is the corporate side doing - the MCIA? Surely they realise its in their interests to support bikers interests, and to defend against policies that make biking less attractive, and therefore less sales for them. They haven't been exactly vocal from what I can see.
I'm not sure what the MCIA are doing, I shall ask and find out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TektroG View Post
Secondly, I'm interested to hear on what you base your opinions of the riders rights organisations, Pyro. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, just asking why you've formed that opinion.
Riders rights organisations seem to have faded from the news, they dont seem to have the presence they did. (see below as well)



Quote:
Originally Posted by TektroG View Post
Regarding your other post, on the bike parking tax, what is the involvement of any of the above in the fight against that?
Used for reference to show that people think we will put up with anything and that there are some of us who do pull together when needed, the point of it was to show that most of the riders showing up and protesting are commuters
not your conventional biker image. Getting 'real' bikers to protest is very difficult in any respect, politicians know this, we very rarely turn out in force for anything.

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My personal opinion is that it is the BMF that has lost the plot, and a great deal of support, following internal spats, and that it was always more corporate. IMO MAG represents better grass roots bikers, and with the financial crisis as a number of "motorcyclists" liquidate their toys, the more traditional bikers will continue as before. However I do find it laughable that an organisation that was founded on the principle of "let the rider decide", in opposition to the compulsion to wear helmets, should choose as its corporate logo what? - 2 helmets!!! A triumph of branding over common sense.
The BMF is a joke, the image it portrays is of an organisation of BMW riding bank managers, which is fine if they want to represent just that portion, but they say they represent all bikers... yeah right.

MAG has problems of its own, to be honest clinging onto the helmet issue is ridiculous, that part of the law will never change, and the logo as far as I am concerned shows that. Whenever I come across MAG stands at show etc they seem more concerned in signing up members than anything else.
MAG also seems to have become slightly elitist as well. The image they portray only seems to appeal to a small group of bikers, they need to revamp thier image badly.


The other thing we have to remember is this, bikers are mostly what they are because they want to be a little bit different we love the adrenaline and the buzz of riding, biking gives us independence from our lives, if we were honest most of us see ourselves as 'bad boys' we love the image.
This image is what alienates us from the citizen in the street and its also whats scares them. Which is why they try to control us in small ways.
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Old 17-03-2009, 11:07 AM
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I used to think that clinging onto opposing the helmet law was pointless, but I'm now of the opinion that it represents a fundamental principle - explicitly that the rider should have the freedom to choose. That said I'm a realist and I can't see it changing either.
I'm in agreement about the general apathy of bikers towards politics, one read of this forum would confirm that most of us think they're all pretty much cut from the same cloth, and out to line their own pockets, and there's not much to choose between them. That said "Bikers are voters" is a good slogan, and if we can demonstrate it and hold them to pre-election (whichever one) promises, so much the better.
My argument is that in certain quarters, some of the big clubs have a certain amount of influence, and if they decided to lend some support to some of these campaigns (that are also in their own interests), they could bring in a significant number of bikers. Of course this would need some co-operation between on the scale of what's happening in Australia, and I'm not naive enough to think that in the current climate that's likely to happen in the UK.
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Old 17-03-2009, 02:15 PM
wurzel wurzel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TektroG View Post
"Bikers are voters" is a good logan, and if we can demonstrate it and hold them to pre-election (whichever one) promises, so much the better..
Boris and London bus lanes for example
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  #24  
Old 17-03-2009, 03:37 PM
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Yeah, welcome to the forum snobal, What do you ride and I hope you are good at stirring..

Ride safe.

John
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  #25  
Old 19-03-2009, 07:54 AM
Simon B Simon B is offline
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Been informed that The Mongrol incident happened last October and was in response to a very public killing they where involved in.


But what is happening in Australia is still a very worrying issue
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  #26  
Old 19-03-2009, 09:44 AM
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Meanwhile..... in the UK. Erm yes you can see the parallel.
That's why I think this legislation will be coming here.
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Old 22-03-2009, 09:32 PM
minxy minxy is offline
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Found this on today's news.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/7957863.stm
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  #28  
Old 23-03-2009, 01:48 AM
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I just like riding my bike!

belonging to an MC patch club is a dedication too far for me!

Like religion.

Live and let live and ride safe.

There are enough poeple ready to run down bikers without turning on each other.

Just my thoughts.

John
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  #29  
Old 23-03-2009, 07:44 AM
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I doubt that incident had much if anything to do with riding bikes.

I have to say I quite admire the NCC setup in the UK. They seem to strike a good balance between commitment to the club and maintaining the focus on building and riding highly modified bikes. Not that I know that much, just from casual observation, you understand.
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  #30  
Old 24-03-2009, 09:58 PM
kitkat kitkat is offline
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Good club ,
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