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  #1  
Old 25-01-2009, 10:41 PM
Acker Acker is offline
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Default What tyre?

After reading loads of posts etc about the dreaded 'wobble' most the advice is to get a square or 'U' shaped tyre. Can anyone recommend such a tyre i'e make etc.
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Old 25-01-2009, 11:08 PM
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The wobble is down to bad design, I have a normal bike tyre Metzeler laser 33 if I remember right. Most square section tyres are not designed for Front wheel use ie sidecar or rear only and could invalidate any insurance in the event of a accident be careful not all advice is good.
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Old 25-01-2009, 11:30 PM
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I got very slight wobble on rough roads - and steering is heavy on roundabouts.
steering damper? or is this normal behaviour?
i must be reading the wrong threads but i'm sure that advice given to someone else was to lower the tyre pressure on the back and fit a different section tyre on the front.
lowering the tyre pressure - (now down to 18lb) has deffo helped and as front tyre is worn i thort i'd invest in a squarish tyre when i buy a new one.
As I sed its not a severe wobble.
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Old 26-01-2009, 08:55 AM
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Got foot wide tyres on back of my vdub trike n standard bike 120 section on front. Been like that for good 12 years n no probs. Wobble when go too fast in reverse but thats it. No steering damper or sod all. All comes down to trike design tho and steering geometry. If youve no handling problems stick with what ya know.
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Old 26-01-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggy696969 View Post
Most square section tyres are not designed for Front wheel use ie sidecar or rear only and could invalidate any insurance in the event of a accident be careful not all advice is good.

Agree that not all advice is good. ALL sidecar square section tyres are designed and approved to be used on any wheel on an outfit, front, rear or chair.
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Old 26-01-2009, 09:42 AM
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Thanks lads - i think i've jumped the gun a bit - re checked tyre pressures and rear pressures was a couple of pound difference - also put a bit more air into front and slight wobble now gone! just shows that being accurate with things like tyre pressure pays off.
Panic over!
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  #7  
Old 27-01-2009, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happybiker View Post
Agree that not all advice is good. ALL sidecar square section tyres are designed and approved to be used on any wheel on an outfit, front, rear or chair.
That would depend on load and speed ratings.
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Old 27-01-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggy696969 View Post
That would depend on load and speed ratings.
Not according to the tyre manufacturers Shaggy........

Having a choice of load and speed ratings assumes one can buy a square section bike tyre other than an Avon triple duty sidecar tyre in the UK. (3.50x 19). The name 'triple duty' refers to which wheels on an outfit the tyres can be fitted. IE all 3

Metzeler do their K block tyres (3.50x18) but they are like rocking horse droppings and I had to get them from the States last time I wanted any.
the K block spec is the same and it can be fitted on all wheels on an outfit

Barum/Mitas do 'Universal' tyres but they are not strictly square treaded.
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  #9  
Old 27-01-2009, 05:35 PM
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But Avon tripple duty is S rated, and the metzler k block speed rating is H both would be too low rated for either the Z1300 trike on here and also my Vmax trike. Both bikes require V or Z rated tyres so my argument stands having the wrong rated tyre on the front will give a insurance company wriggling room in a claim.
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  #10  
Old 27-01-2009, 07:45 PM
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So although i've solved the wobble - is there a tyre you would recommend? trike is bike based - 17inch front wheel.
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  #11  
Old 28-01-2009, 11:42 AM
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Ah, the old "Well my VW trike has concrete tyres and behaves perfectly well" observation.

One of the reasons it's so difficult to be precise about all this is that tyres and rake/trail aren't the be all and end all of the matter.

Stability has as much to do with the ratio of track to wheel base.

Short narrow trikes are inherently less stable than long wide ones.

The other thing that's going to have an effect is the weight distribution. A trike with 70% of its weight on the rear wheels will be lighter to steer and probably more stable than one with 50% of it's weight on the rear wheels in a straight line.

Turning into a corner is another matter though...

All of which assumes that whoever built the thing in the first place, got the headstock square with the axle.

So, VW trikes are clearly heavier at the rear, which is why a lot of the German stuff has frame spines and forks made out of solid lumps of steel, to get some weight on the front wheel. This tends to make them less affected by wobbles, and they also dont tend to weight the steering up in a bend as a sweeping generalisation.

Sensitivity to issues like trail and tyre section are going to be dictated by those factors as much as anything else.

As a side note, while its entirely possible to engineer short trail with a lot of rake, using raked yokes or whatever, lots of rake and a square section tyre means you're tipping the tyre over and lifting one side of the contact patch off the road...

One of the basic rules of vehicle handling is that ANYTHING you do will affect EVERYTHING else. The trick lies in affecting things in a way that tends to achieve your aims.

This is futher complicated by the fact that what is and isn't acceptable is deeply subjective. I used to have a Harris that "needed" a steering damper. Well Trevor nation didn't have a steering damper on it when he hustled round the IOM for a 100+mph lap, so clearly it didn't "need" the steering damper. Was a bit "lively" coming out of a bend without it though...

The point of that is that firstly I used to have an ex-Trevor Nation Harris, and secondly, people perceive various handling traits in different ways.

Obviously, all a bit complicated, and not really anything that is ever going to make sense as a post on a forum. Possibly not ever going to make sense full stop.
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Old 28-01-2009, 12:13 PM
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I enjoyed reading your post...
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  #13  
Old 28-01-2009, 05:49 PM
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I'd have thought that a light front end would encourage wobbles rather than alleviate them.

Does on me bike, anyway.....
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Old 28-01-2009, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acker View Post
So although i've solved the wobble - is there a tyre you would recommend? trike is bike based - 17inch front wheel.
If you have solved the wobble ....... why would you want to change it and what bike?
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  #15  
Old 28-01-2009, 08:05 PM
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because the front tyre is worn and i will need a new un soon - so might as well go for one that would suit the trike rather than when it was a bike (honda 650)
didn't think it would be this hard to get an answer

Last edited by Acker; 28-01-2009 at 08:11 PM.
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  #16  
Old 28-01-2009, 08:13 PM
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Stick with what you got. Square sectional tyres are only any good with leading link front ends and unless your trike has it your making matters worse, By putting square tyres on traditional front ends is reducing point of contact in the corner curved tyres are by design meant to keep contact when the wheel leans into a corner. Only leading link would keep flat contact with the road.

So stick to what you got. Simple
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  #17  
Old 28-01-2009, 08:27 PM
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ok thanks for the advice shaggy - we got there in the end
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  #18  
Old 28-01-2009, 09:49 PM
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Avon am22 has a fairly flat profile or you could always put a low profile rear tyre off the back of something small on the front
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  #19  
Old 28-01-2009, 10:09 PM
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I've been looking at Avon classic range ....................??
As i said i'd probably opt for something that has a more squarer section than a more modern day motorcycle tyre - from riding bikes for years - I am well aware that even in a straight line you are making 'leaning' adjustments. where as on a trike surely the wheel will behave in a different way than as on a bike.
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  #20  
Old 29-01-2009, 12:24 PM
Blackjack Blackjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droid View Post
I'd have thought that a light front end would encourage wobbles rather than alleviate them.

Does on me bike, anyway.....
Hence the use if the words "tends", "sweeping" and "generalisation"
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  #21  
Old 01-02-2009, 09:26 PM
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Default Front Tyres????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
Ah, the old "Well my VW trike has concrete tyres and behaves perfectly well" observation.

One of the reasons it's so difficult to be precise about all this is that tyres and rake/trail aren't the be all and end all of the matter.

Stability has as much to do with the ratio of track to wheel base.

Short narrow trikes are inherently less stable than long wide ones.

The other thing that's going to have an effect is the weight distribution. A trike with 70% of its weight on the rear wheels will be lighter to steer and probably more stable than one with 50% of it's weight on the rear wheels in a straight line.

Turning into a corner is another matter though...

All of which assumes that whoever built the thing in the first place, got the headstock square with the axle.

So, VW trikes are clearly heavier at the rear, which is why a lot of the German stuff has frame spines and forks made out of solid lumps of steel, to get some weight on the front wheel. This tends to make them less affected by wobbles, and they also dont tend to weight the steering up in a bend as a sweeping generalisation.

Sensitivity to issues like trail and tyre section are going to be dictated by those factors as much as anything else.

As a side note, while its entirely possible to engineer short trail with a lot of rake, using raked yokes or whatever, lots of rake and a square section tyre means you're tipping the tyre over and lifting one side of the contact patch off the road...

One of the basic rules of vehicle handling is that ANYTHING you do will affect EVERYTHING else. The trick lies in affecting things in a way that tends to achieve your aims.

This is futher complicated by the fact that what is and isn't acceptable is deeply subjective. I used to have a Harris that "needed" a steering damper. Well Trevor nation didn't have a steering damper on it when he hustled round the IOM for a 100+mph lap, so clearly it didn't "need" the steering damper. Was a bit "lively" coming out of a bend without it though...

The point of that is that firstly I used to have an ex-Trevor Nation Harris, and secondly, people perceive various handling traits in different ways.

Obviously, all a bit complicated, and not really anything that is ever going to make sense as a post on a forum. Possibly not ever going to make sense full stop.
Very well put that man
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