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  #31  
Old 02-02-2005, 11:54 AM
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Default Bright Ideas

Hi Yoda,

A bike trike can be up to 1700mm wide overall before two headlamps (dip and main) are obligatory. You can only have a maximum of two dipped beam headlamps whatever the width.

If yours is less than 1700 mm the best set up using three lamps woul be to have the centre one wired for dip and main beams and the two outboard ones as main beam only.

Hope this helps

Chris
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  #32  
Old 02-02-2005, 12:26 PM
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damn was really hoping you were going to say he needed another 6 headlights
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  #33  
Old 03-02-2005, 09:11 AM
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Default Multi lights

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  #34  
Old 03-02-2005, 08:41 PM
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Hi chris just a quick question i'm coming towards the end of my trike build and am looking at getting it MSVAed in the near future. Seeing as ther is no tax or mot on it will it have to be trailered to the test site or can it be riden thanx MAX
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  #35  
Old 04-02-2005, 08:48 AM
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Default Get me to the test on time!

Yo Max,

Basically because MSVA is a "statutory examination" ie required by law if you have adequate insurance cover and your test is pre booked (all MSVAs are) and it meets C&U then you may ride to and from the test without registration and VED (tax disc). Our stations should send you an appointment letter once the test date n time is confirmed so if you are pulled over you can show that you are on your way to us. (they might take a dim view if you decided on a round britain diversion to get there!)

Same sort of thing applies to pre booked MoTs, MSVA and MoT can be done in any order (bit chicken and egg really) as they are looking at different things.

Hope this clears things up a bit
Cheers

Chris

Last edited by MSVA Tech; 04-02-2005 at 08:50 AM.
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  #36  
Old 04-02-2005, 09:38 AM
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on a similar note - its a little known fact that you can ride to a pre-booked MOT station without a number plate if you are registering a newly imported / built vehicle

I had to do it right past slough police station on a Husqvarna XC430 witha maico 490 engine in it (500 cc two stoke full competition bike, loud as f**k, and impossible to ride without wheeliing everywhere lol )
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  #37  
Old 04-02-2005, 12:25 PM
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Hiya Chris. Same sort of question as Yoda asked. Is it only the twin headlight rule that is dictated by a trike with an overall width wider than 1700mm, or is there anything else that the extra width will change over a narrower trike??
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  #38  
Old 04-02-2005, 02:18 PM
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i'd like to know the same as taxidave above also.
as a vw beetle measures 1400mm hub face to hubface. thats only giving a builder 150mm per side to play with
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  #39  
Old 04-02-2005, 03:36 PM
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also as what if i had the lkighting setup as described earlier
1 main headlight in the middle and two smaller headlights either side on a bar in spotlight position

if my trike is wider than 1700 can i use the two smaller lights as the main lights (is there a restriction as to how far apart twin headlights have to be)

as you can gather i really dont want twin headlights

can you clarify if the headlight thing is part of an mot test as well as an MSVA test

if its not part of an mot test then i will be ok as i will be msva exempt anyway

Many Thanks
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  #40  
Old 04-02-2005, 04:39 PM
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Also, hyperthetically, when the MSVA test and the first MOT is out of the way, would an unscrupulous person ( not me, Yoda or Dracken obviously ) be able to change the twin set-up in favour of a single headlamp, or would a normal MOT station know that they have to measure the overall width of the trike.
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  #41  
Old 08-02-2005, 09:47 AM
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Default Trippin the light fantastic

What ho chaps,

The 1700mm max width was a concession given for headlamps only in the MSVA regs, if you look at a wide trike with ECWVTA (like the Booms) you will see the two lamps on horizontal bars.

Ok headlamps chapter and verse the important ones are the dipped beam
Dipped beam lamps
Colour: White
Number 1 or 2 max
Position: At the front of the vehicle (ie infront of rider)
Min height: 500m(to centre of lamp dipped beams are the only ones measured to this point)
Max height 1500mm
Max 200mm from a single (ie separate) main beam headlamp
Vehicles over 1700mm wide must be fitted with 2 lamps, and if 2 dipped beam headlamps are fitted - max 400mm fro outermost edge of vehicle and min 500mm distance between illuminating surfaces of twin lamps. This can be reduced to 400mm if 2 dipped beams are fitted to a vehicle less than 1300mm wide.

Main beam headlamps
Colour: white
Number: 1 min
Fitted at the front maximum 200mm between single dipped and main beam headlams. Vehicles over 1700mm wide must be fitted with two lamps.

MoT

The new section 9 (trikes and quads Aug 2004) also requires vehicles over 1700mm wide too be fitted with two lamps.

Think that covers it, you'd end up buggering about with lots of lamps if you were to modify things post MSVA/MoT and then have to keep changin back for subsequent MoTs.

Have fun

Chris
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  #42  
Old 08-02-2005, 04:23 PM
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have played with tape measure and decided to use the two headlamps in the spotlight positions as the main lights as the 500mm allows this and the centre headlamp will be on a seperate circuit
whooppee, sorry dracken you nearly had another 6in light sold there

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  #43  
Old 08-02-2005, 05:02 PM
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dam..........
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  #44  
Old 12-02-2005, 09:24 PM
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Default indicators

Hi Chris

Can i have rear indicators flashing forward as well as backward (they are on the rear guards) and if so do i still need front mounted indicators if the rear ones are visible from the front of the vehicle
Thanks Tom
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  #45  
Old 15-02-2005, 11:56 AM
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http://www.vca.gov.uk/downloads/files/vca005.pdf

useful regs on bikes /trikes
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  #46  
Old 22-02-2005, 11:01 PM
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Hi chris i rang up VOSA today to enquire about booking the trike in for an MSVA but the person i spoke to didn't think it needed to be tested as it was over ten years old and their tech expert wasn't available. Any clear guidence on this gratfully recieved thanx MAX
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  #47  
Old 24-02-2005, 09:43 AM
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Default Indicators and ten year olds

Hi All,

Sorry I've not been on for a while had some domestics to sort out.

Tom - the front indicators can be mounted on the rear guards they need to be between 350mm and 1500mm from the ground (the whole lamp) and be at least 240mm apart.

You can only have a maximum of two front indicators (one each side) so there's no need to fit any more up front.

the rear indicators have the same height requirements as the front but they must be at least 500mm apart and each lamp must be no more than 400mm from the outside edge of the trike. You can have a maximum of four (two each side) rear indicators.

Max the ten year rule applies to complete vehicles that are at least that age have you built a trike based on a bike that is over ten? Even if this is the case you have created a "new" or more accurately, radically altered vehicle.

I can probably advise you best if you give me a call on 0117 954 2544 during office hours.

Cheers guys

Chris
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  #48  
Old 02-03-2005, 07:45 AM
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Back to the lights issue, in my recent MOT the tester asked where the sidelights were, as in a car set up. I pointed out that bikes don't have the same set up as cars and that there is only dip and main, with no sidelight provision. As it is being retested on Tuesday, I am a bit concerned that he is going to fail it on this?
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  #49  
Old 02-03-2005, 08:29 AM
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Default Side (front position) lamps

Hi Pagan,

I'll take a guess that it's a trike we're talking about as a bike doesn't need a front position lamp for MoT if it has a headlamp. (bikes do need a front position lamp for MSVA tho).

All trikes (whether bike trikes or carcycles) are classed as class 3 or 4 vehicles for MoT, class 3 if 450kg or under unladen class 4 if above (this is the same weight limit used to decide if a trike has a tricycle or plg tax classification). This means when a trike is tested the tester is using the car and light commercial manual which covers class 3 and 4.

The new section 9 in the MoT manual that provides specific information on trikes and quads requires either one centrally mounted front position lamp if the vehicle's maximum width is 1300mm or less and two lamps if it wider.

There are no positional requirements for the MoT (again unlike MSVA). Most trikes usually have them on the rear guards so that the rear axle doesn't get whacked by an oncoming vehicle. It should be fairly straight forward to tap into the feed to the rear position (tail) lamps.

Hope this clears things up for you and good luck with the retest.

Cheers

Chris
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  #50  
Old 02-03-2005, 08:31 AM
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can you than kthe gentleman i spoke to from your office last thursday very helpfull . love and respect dave satan answered loads of questions on trike and day time use mot for bikes cheers dave
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  #51  
Old 02-03-2005, 10:22 AM
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Cheers Dave,

I'll pass that on, it was Harry you were speaking to he's one of our examiners. He spent last week with me to get an idea of what I do so that he can cover phone enquiries if I am away.

He'll be chuffed to know he's been of help.

Chris
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  #52  
Old 02-03-2005, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSVA Tech
Hi Pagan,

The new section 9 in the MoT manual that provides specific information on trikes and quads requires either one centrally mounted front position lamp if the vehicle's maximum width is 1300mm or less and two lamps if it wider.

There are no positional requirements for the MoT (again unlike MSVA). Most trikes usually have them on the rear guards so that the rear axle doesn't get whacked by an oncoming vehicle. It should be fairly straight forward to tap into the feed to the rear position (tail) lamps.
MOT question - my trike's got 2 mudguard mounted position lamps like you mentioned. My twin headlights have separate bulbs for sidelights but they've never been wired up - is it ok to wire these up so that I'll have a total of 4 position lamps/sidelights?
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  #53  
Old 02-03-2005, 02:16 PM
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Default Trike exhausts - MSVA and MOT

Hi Chris

Leaving aside that the MOT now does not require your exhaust can to have any markings/stamps anymore. I realise that for MSVA there is a noise test specifically using a decibel meter so its clear cut'n'dry whether a trike exhaust is too noisy or not. However for MOT purposes things are a little less clear - as some else mentioned in one of the other message threads:

"However it is up to the MOT tester, as long as in the opinion of the tester
it is no louder than a standard exhaust sytem it will pass."

Now, for a trike, whether bike or car based, its unlikely that the original exhaust system can be re-used in its entirety - so there would be no such thing as "a standard exhaust system" to compare it against.

I've got a V-Max trike with a customer 4-2-1 system - is the MOT guy supposed to compare that with the normal V-Max bike exhaust??

Do you know if in the future decibel meters will be used during MOTs?

What happens for a trike (or indeed a old bike) where replacement parts are no longer available for the exhaust system. If I was to get new downpipes made up for example how am I to have any control over whether thery end up making the exhaust sound louder than beforehand?
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  #54  
Old 02-03-2005, 03:29 PM
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Default Lights n pipes

Hi Titus,

I'm gona have to assume that DVTA use the same or similar MoT manuals as us.


There is no upper limit on front position lamps for MSVA or MoT. It is only EC Whole vehicle type approval that has a max so wiring up the pilot bulbs in the headlamps will be ok.

Because trikes are tested under the class 3/4 manual the exhaust checks are fairly straightforward. the checks are: (straight from the book)

1. Examine the condition of the whole exhaust system, including the silencers and mountings, for security, detereiation and completeness.

2. With the engine running

a. check the exhaust system for leaks. Note : a durable repair to an exhaust system which effectively prevents leaks is acceptable providing the system is structurally sound.

b. assess subjectively the effectiveness of the silencer in reducing exhaust noise to a level considered to be average for the vehicle.

The test is subjective because it is up to the tester he will listen to the noise produced and make a decision.

There are no plans to bring in metered noise tests for MoT at present the meters we use are expensive and it would put a lot of burden on MoT garages. I believ there has been a push for noise testing from some parties in EU but I reckon it is a long way off if ever but don't quote me on that!

There is nothing in the manual about which components are required to make up the exhaust system.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Chris
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  #55  
Old 10-03-2005, 03:19 PM
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OK....someone has got to ask this




How much does the msva test cost?
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  #56  
Old 10-03-2005, 04:03 PM
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Default Horns

Both a MSVA and MOT question.

What's the situation on twin horns (i.e. high and low note)? Are these ok?
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  #57  
Old 10-03-2005, 04:11 PM
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Same with all vehicles,

Twin horns ok - sounded simultaneously.

But,
Two tone or musical where the note is varied are a no no.

Got air horns on me Harley - hidden under the gearbox - they can drop the stockings on a pensioner from 100 feet away
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  #58  
Old 11-03-2005, 07:59 AM
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Default Wots it cost mister?

Hi Excalibur,

Here you go, MSVA Test Fees

Low Power Moped (Velosolex type things) 45
Two wheeled vehicle (inc chair outfit) 70
Three or four wheeled vehicle 85
Out of Hours supplement to above 20
Retest (within six months of orginal test) 15
Duplicate/Replacement Certificate 10

Many items on the test qualify for a free retest if the vehicle is returned to for retest within five working days.

Cheers

Chris
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  #59  
Old 11-03-2005, 08:04 AM
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Default Things Horny

Yep Mad Dogs right, got to be continous uniform sound for MSVA for MoT you can have a gong bell or siren if the London Science Museum certifies that the vehicle was designed before 1 jan 1905 and built before 31 Dec1905.

Cheers

Chris
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  #60  
Old 11-03-2005, 10:50 AM
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Question Suspension on trikes???

Ok so we have read the MOT manual section 9 and viewed the latest DVD from them but we are still unclear whether you are allowed to build a trike hardtail????? A simple yes or no is all I require, please put me out of my misery, (I have been looking all over the place for the answer!)
Thanks, Scorch
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