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Old 01-06-2004, 11:55 PM
titusni titusni is offline
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Default Where to buy e-marked LED bulb replacements?

Looking to replace sidelights and indicators with LED bulbs. However all the LED bulbs I've seen so far don't appear to be e-marked (i.e. are not legal to use on the road).

Anyone know of a supplier of e-marked LED bulbs?
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Old 02-06-2004, 08:08 AM
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i can't imagine any of the powers that be going to the hassle of removing
lenses to check for an e-mark on your bulbs.
but i'm sure you'll always find someone keen enough to check

i've checked my stock and no none of the led ones are e-marked.
good job i did check i'm out of indicator led bulbs.

my 21-5 stop and tail are 8.00 each (unashamed plug i know)

Last edited by dracken1; 02-06-2004 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 02-06-2004, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dracken1
i can't imagine any of the powers that be going to the hassle of removing lenses to check for an e-mark on your bulbs.
but i'm sure you'll always find someone keen enough to check
Well my trike seems to get more attention than the average vehicle on the road.

Also in the case of an accident the police and/or insurance companies could use the absence of e-marking to place or shift blame...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dracken1
i've checked my stock and no none of the led ones are e-marked. good job i did check i'm out of indicator led bulbs.

my 21-5 stop and tail are 8.00 each (unashamed plug i know)
How many LEDs do these have? You don't happen to do 90-degree stop/tail bulbs? My tail bulbs mount sideways so a normal LED isn't good enough. I did however see some 90-degree LEDs on a USA site.

I've see e-marked complete LED fixtures (like rear window brake lights for cars) but I've yet to find e-marked replacement LED bulbs.
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Old 02-06-2004, 11:39 AM
Doro Doro is offline
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what do you mean by e-marked??

I work in the safety testing industry and I've never heard of e marks

do you mean CE marks? If so then these will be European manufactured. I'm sure the law would allow equivalent USA safety marks such as the UL mark or CSA mark
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Old 02-06-2004, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doro
what do you mean by e-marked??

I work in the safety testing industry and I've never heard of e marks

do you mean CE marks? If so then these will be European manufactured. I'm sure the law would allow equivalent USA safety marks such as the UL mark or CSA mark
"E mark" is what I see numerous www sites refer to and I did look at an ordinary bulb I have and there is indeed the letter "E" followed by some digits on it.

I assume E-mark / CE approved are the same thing. I tried searching for VOSA info on bulb approval but didn't find anything.

Basically the LED bulbs I've seen so far are marked "not for road use" on their packaging.
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Old 02-06-2004, 02:02 PM
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i had to personally import my power coating kit from eastwood in the states
as the uk dealer (frost) did'nt and could'nt sell me one as it did not have a ce
mark.
i would be interested to know if american marks only. are enough.

without looking i think mine have 9-10 leds

no hilevel brake light but i do these available with/without n.o. plate bracket
http://www.jwmotorcycles.com/364950.jpg

Last edited by dracken1; 02-06-2004 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 02-06-2004, 10:05 PM
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See, now I was under the impression that the LENS had to have an E mark. But only for vehicles registered after som bizzarely arbitrary date. If it's on a "Q" then it's either 1971 or 1973 regs that apply and in that case you can use fairy lights if you like.
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Old 02-06-2004, 10:37 PM
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I bet Ewock 'n' Tuck can sort you some o' them !!!!!
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Old 03-06-2004, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
See, now I was under the impression that the LENS had to have an E mark. But only for vehicles registered after som bizzarely arbitrary date. If it's on a "Q" then it's either 1971 or 1973 regs that apply and in that case you can use fairy lights if you like.
But there's obviously some sort of regs on bulbs - otherwise I could switch my headlight bulbs for those 120W H4s everyone advertises for "off road use only". So how do I figure out if a certain LED bulb is legal on the road to use in the UK?

My trike's not on a Q plate - it kept its original English reg plate when it was MSVA'ed in January. The lens may well have E marks - I haven't checked but my question is about the bulbs I can use...
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Old 03-06-2004, 08:49 PM
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The short answer is go to Halford's and buy some.

If its a legal requirement for automotive bulbs then you can rest assured that should you get nailed for it, it will then in fact be Halford's fault for selling them as automotive bulbs.

Oh and keep the receipt.

Also, in neatly avoiding specifying the year your "english" registration plate is for (as we all know "Q" plates are from Venus) prevents any body from giving any sort of meaningful answer to your question.

Other than the obvious abusive ones......
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Old 03-06-2004, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
The short answer is go to Halford's and buy some.
My local Halfords doesn't do LED bulbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
Also, in neatly avoiding specifying the year your "english" registration plate is for (as we all know "Q" plates are from Venus) prevents any body from giving any sort of meaningful answer to your question.
"B" plate, 1992 (tho its a 1985 Californian Max)
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Old 03-06-2004, 10:15 PM
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The construction and abuse regs require you to have a 5 watt tail light, a 21 watt brake light, and 21 watt indicator bulbs. I believe those are quoted as maximums, so an 18 watt brake light and a 3 watt tail light are essentially legal.

To the best of my knowledge there is no "E" mark or other standard that applies.

The problem is that watts is amps times volts and not a measure of light output (which would be lumens or candle power). This is why those stupidly bright "projector" headlamps are OK and the hi power H4 halogen headlight bulbs aren't.

Seeing as LED's apparently draw less electricty than conventional bulbs, they will have a lower wattage for the same brightness. Which appears to conform to the regulations as I understand them.

Legally speaking I would advise you to fit them, but in the event of a police officer removing the lens to investigate, deftly remove the LED assembly, swallow it and tell them to fuck off. Or something.

Last edited by Blackjack; 03-06-2004 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 03-06-2004, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
deftly remove the LED assembly, swallow it and tell them to fuck off. Or something
did that once with a printed tax disc in the car, which i had'nt noticed had faded in the sun.
still got done for no tax, but at least got away with the much more serious
fraud thingy.
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  #14  
Old 04-06-2004, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
The construction and abuse regs require you to have a 5 watt tail light, a 21 watt brake light, and 21 watt indicator bulbs. I believe those are quoted as maximums, so an 18 watt brake light and a 3 watt tail light are essentially legal.
Actually it appears that the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations (1989) normally apply - though there have been revisions to it over the years. According to 1989 doc, "non approved" indicators must be 15-36 watts, brake lights also seem to be 15-26 watts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
To the best of my knowledge there is no "E" mark or other standard that applies.
Found this on my travels:

"From 01 October 2003 all aftermarket electrical or electronic products that are fitted in vehicles will have to meet the requirements of the Automotive Directive (95/54/EC) and be 'e' marked. Until now the use of the 'CE' mark, with the product meeting the requirements of the EMC Directive (89/336/EEC) has been acceptable (at the discretion of the individual EU countries). The changes mean that manufacturers will have to go down the application route for certification. "The e mark is issued by the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA) in the UK. Since the VCA does not have its own EMC test facilities the testing required by 95/54EC will need to be carried out either by authorized technical services or test facilities such as RFI approved by the VCA."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
The problem is that watts is amps times volts and not a measure of light output (which would be lumens or candle power).
Agreed, this is (certainly in the past) where the problem lay with LEDs - they didn't meet the wattage regs regardless of how bright they were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
Seeing as LED's apparently draw less electricty than conventional bulbs, they will have a lower wattage for the same brightness. Which appears to conform to the regulations as I understand them.
Certainly for the 1989 regs they don't conform as they would be below the minimum wattage for sidelights, indictators, and tail/brake lights :-( Apparently the regs have changed but I haven't yet found the new regs.
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  #15  
Old 04-06-2004, 08:39 AM
Doro Doro is offline
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although we don't do testing for automotives we do test electrical stuff and I have access to all international standards. I looked for any reference to the above but found nothing.

I know ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law

but I'd say around 90% of folk using LEDs will have no idea about the regs and will rely on their motor factor to sell them the correct LED, also is everyone going to immediately replace their non e marked bulbs from last year? If they don't know about the new rules they won't. I would do as mentioned earlier and simply buy an LED from a motor factor, tell them what it's for, and let them sell you the correct one. If you can't find anywhere to do this ask them to order some.

otherwise phone the police and ask them about it, or your insurance company, so you know where you stand with not using the e marked ones

BTW who was it who told you about e marked ones anyway?

cheers
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  #16  
Old 04-06-2004, 10:01 AM
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sellers of E type bulbs

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/bikesparks...diot_lamps.htm

http://www.fourstrokesonly.com/Taillights.html

http://www.fastbikebits.com/acatalog...ndicators.html

and the legal jargon...

http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/s...91796_en_1.htm

http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/s...53342_en_1.htm

hope this helps

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  #17  
Old 08-07-2004, 12:48 PM
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as most car manufacturers (indeed bike maufacturers too) now produce a range of machines with leds as standard, either they use specific leds or they just ignore the E mark
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:21 PM
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if the wattage is a problem - put a resistor across the pins, makign it into a 15W (or wattever...) bulb

most LEDs are 100 mW = 0.1Watts - so 10 leds = 1 watt
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