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  #1  
Old 27-04-2004, 07:45 PM
gedmax gedmax is offline
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Cool trike registration

hello all, got me a trike built, well nearly, it was a suzuki Gs1100. just put 2 wheels on back. Does this need a MSVA thingy or not. Thanks for your info.
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  #2  
Old 28-04-2004, 12:04 PM
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Interesting point.

The SVA relates largely to vehicles whose chassis/frame has been modified or replaced. Whereby it effectively becomes a new vehicle constructed largely from used parts of several other vehicles.

I guess it initially is down to wot it says on the V5 ie:- Bicycle or Tricycle.
This is determined by the distance between those 2 wheels, which in this instance is likely to be enough to classify it as a tricycle, and whether this is effectively a permament alteration.

The reason I find this interesting is because you can buy kits that allow conversion to tricycle by removing rear wheel and swinging arm. The vehicle is easily reverted back to a bicycle by removing the kit and replacing the swinging arm etc.

My guess is that if you have welded extra framework to the M/C frame to facilitate a back axle, seating and suspension, then that counts as a modification to the frame and therefore requires a new VIN number and Q plate registration.
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Old 28-04-2004, 10:14 PM
Asher Asher is offline
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Default while we're discussing MSVA

Apologies if this comes over as a thread hi-jack, but while we're on the topic, do SVA rules cover older builds? I assume that any chop or trike built prior to whenever it was that MSVA was introduced isn't required to take the test, but whats the score if you make modifications to an existing vehicle?

I ask cos I recently bought a chopped '79 superdream (Yeah, I know ) and I'm not terribly happy with the front end. If I replace the forks or front suspension with something more to my taste/ in the interest of self preservation am I likely to find myself having to re-register the thing?

Sorry if its a bone question, but I'm not well versed in the legal aspects of custom work.
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Old 28-04-2004, 11:43 PM
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June 2003 is the date in question.

If the frame was changed and the V5 issued with it's own description before the above date, and, that frame number is wot appears on the v5, then all should be ok.

So, if you got a chop with a V5 that says "Bob's Chop" and the VIN number matches the frame number, then all OK. If it still says Triumph Bonneville and is on the original No. plate then u gonna get a problem eventually.

It's the chassis or frame that counts. Alter that and you have a new vehicle that requires registration. Changing the front end shouldn't present any problems.
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  #5  
Old 29-04-2004, 08:10 PM
gedmax gedmax is offline
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Thumbs up trike reg.

B. Radically Altered Vehicles
This covers vehicles which are substantially altered from their original specification, but which are not kit conversions.

In these cases the vehicle components used from the original vehicle will be given a numerical value and, in order to retain the original registration mark the vehicle must score eight or more points.

If less than eight points are scored or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used an ESVA/SVA/MSVA certificate will be required to register the vehicle and a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

The following values will be allocated to the major components used:

Points

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chassis/body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque)* (original or new) = 5
Suspension = 2
Axles = 2
Transmission = 2
Steering Assembly = 2
Engine = 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All this from DVLA site, hope it helps.
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  #6  
Old 29-04-2004, 08:58 PM
Asher Asher is offline
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Default sounds ominous...

Aha.

Soo, speaking hypothetically of course ; If I had a chop which was built well before June 2003 (probably at least 10 years ago), based on a standard frame that had been raked and hardtailed, could it still be registered legitimately on a V5 with its original frame number and registration, assuming no specific model was given? For example, if the original manufacturer is specified but not the donor model?

I was under the impression that "modified" bikes could retain the original registration etc. Is this not the case?
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Old 30-04-2004, 04:27 PM
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I'd say nope.

coz you've altered the frame from it's original specification, so that's 5 points out the window. And, you've done away with the rear suspension, so that's another 2 points gone.

Not enough points left to retain the original registration.
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Old 30-04-2004, 08:02 PM
Asher Asher is offline
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Default Oh dear...

Is that points system not the one that applies to SVA though? Wasn't there some rule of thumb prior to the introduction of SVA that a bike that was 60% "original" could retain its plates? Obviously the whole idea of SVA was to standardise build quality for roadgoing vehicles, but before that how was it all done (apart from the construction and use rules)?

I'm not questioning your knowledge, as its plainly broader than mine, but I'm beginning to think that I may have been bitten on the arse for not following the golden rule of caveat emptor, and want to find out where I stand.

The bike I have has its original vin plate, a matching V5 and an engineers report which was sent to the dvla confirning that the engine had been changed. Like the naiive berk that I am I bought it in good faith as an MOT'd, Taxed and legally registered bike that I could run and work on at the same time, only now I'm beginning to wonder if the latter bit is strictly true. What exactly went on before the powers that be started type approval exactly?
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  #9  
Old 02-05-2004, 09:28 PM
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How about building a trike using a car with tricycle on v5, and using a different engine, rear axle/wheels. can it be kept on the same age related plate andnot have to deal with new laws?
any ideas or do i have to buy the book at £30(trike law book)
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  #10  
Old 03-05-2004, 02:56 AM
Alik Windrush Alik Windrush is offline
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Ignore the points thing. You stand more chance of buying a bacon buttie in Israel than keeping an original number plate.
You need an MSVA when the vehicle changes taxation class i.e. bolt on a sidecar and it's still a motorcycle. Attach a car axle and that makes it a trike cos the rear wheels are in line.
A chop is still a bicycle..... I think
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  #11  
Old 11-05-2004, 06:35 PM
gedmax gedmax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alik Windrush
Ignore the points thing. You stand more chance of buying a bacon buttie in Israel than keeping an original number plate.
You need an MSVA when the vehicle changes taxation class i.e. bolt on a sidecar and it's still a motorcycle. Attach a car axle and that makes it a trike cos the rear wheels are in line.
A chop is still a bicycle..... I think
hey Alik, ITHINK I have just been to Isreal and got a double bacon buttie, Pigs ears for the dog,some trotters, and (fanfare), my new trike registered with out msva, and I get to keep my original number plate. YEEEEEHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2004, 07:59 PM
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Default trike reg

if ya trike is not registerd as a trike now ya need m s va ..the only way round not avin msva is to b registered as disabled..ow do i kno this m8 has just built a valkyrie trike and not needed to go thru m s v a or s v a..just bought acc, damaged bike used frame / engine put in sierra diff d v l a man came out looked at it checked eng,no frame no, they match yep ya can av origanal reg,no.insured goin for m.o.t week-end..he is disabled..sorted...as for chops if ya bikes on road an registerd change it in any way ya like..no s v a ...it,s already registerd aint it....
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  #13  
Old 12-05-2004, 02:01 AM
Alik Windrush Alik Windrush is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gedmax
hey Alik, ITHINK I have just been to Isreal and got a double bacon buttie, Pigs ears for the dog,some trotters, and (fanfare), my new trike registered with out msva, and I get to keep my original number plate. YEEEEEHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!
very well done mate and congrats. So how the phuck did you do that then?
(P.S) Can you pick me up a burger on your next trip
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  #14  
Old 12-05-2004, 07:20 PM
gedmax gedmax is offline
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Talking trike reg.

Ok this is what my friendly dvla man told me. "If you have the original log book and engine no's and frame no's match then thats half the battle, also if it is not too major a frame mod then he personally prefers to give the original number plate cos he doesn't like Q plates anyway. All I needed was a weight cert, MOT, and insurance cert, and he had a quick look round to check the above and there you go.
It would seem the weight is important as it CHANGES THE CATAGORY OF VEHICLE OVER A CERTAIN WEIGHT.410kg I think is the cut off, from trycycle to plg.
Maybe I'm the exception, maybe it's just the inspectors way of doing things, I don't know. I had the same guy check my other trike when that was built a couple of years ago and managed to retain the original plates, tax exempt too.
Anyways I don't care, It's all done and dusted for me.
take care out there. cya
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  #15  
Old 14-05-2004, 01:24 AM
Alik Windrush Alik Windrush is offline
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Fantastic... I may move to where you live!
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  #16  
Old 28-05-2004, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gedmax
Ok this is what my friendly dvla man told me. "If you have the original log book and engine no's and frame no's match then thats half the battle, also if it is not too major a frame mod then he personally prefers to give the original number plate cos he doesn't like Q plates anyway. All I needed was a weight cert, MOT, and insurance cert, and he had a quick look round to check the above and there you go.
It would seem the weight is important as it CHANGES THE CATAGORY OF VEHICLE OVER A CERTAIN WEIGHT.410kg I think is the cut off, from trycycle to plg.
Maybe I'm the exception, maybe it's just the inspectors way of doing things, I don't know. I had the same guy check my other trike when that was built a couple of years ago and managed to retain the original plates, tax exempt too.
Anyways I don't care, It's all done and dusted for me.
take care out there. cya
When my Vmax trike was SVA'ed over here in Northern Ireland in January because it kept the original frame (though modifed) and original engine even though the front-end and rear were completly new it keep the same VIN and the same English reg plate.

I don't have the weight docket handy but it was in or around 440kg.
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