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Old 09-01-2006, 12:47 PM
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Default hardtail frame

as i have no hope of making me own frame ( wouldnt trust it lol ) i have been quoted for 1.

does this sound right ?? as again i have no idea


Hardtail frame: built using 1" or 1.25" and 1.752 top tube Dom Mech' tubing.
With engine lugs : £625.00 +v.a.t.
Complete to suit : £1225.00 +v.a.t.
Spec' is taken/ a drawing made and dimensions and geometry clarified.
All work gauranteed. One month lead time.
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Old 09-01-2006, 03:26 PM
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the basic price sounds about right.
not sure about the complete price.
try this guy on yoda's site.
i know him personally as his work is top notch.
say "jw motorcycles told you"

http://www.bikerlifestyle.co.uk/Deal.../malarkey.html
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Old 09-01-2006, 06:28 PM
PILRCGeff PILRCGeff is offline
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Sounds a tad expensive for a hardtail!
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dracken1
the basic price sounds about right.
not sure about the complete price.
try this guy on yoda's site.
i know him personally as his work is top notch.
say "jw motorcycles told you"

http://www.bikerlifestyle.co.uk/Deal.../malarkey.html


that is who gave me that price
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PILRCGeff
Sounds a tad expensive for a hardtail!
???

Ok, it's a LOT of money for a hardtail. But a hardtail is when you convert an existing frame into a rigid.

I'm assuming for that money its actually a scratch built rigid frame.

DOM mechanical tubing. Bit suspect, why isn't it seamless? And is this the DOM mechanical with the ridges up the inside?

£625 +VAT is £734. So what's the frame for? Chain drive jap four? HD big twin? Because that makes a difference to, lot more work in a HD big twin or for instance a shaft drive jap. Virago's are a bit odd too....

Does it use the original headstock or a new one? If it's a new one does it take the stock bearings?

TIG or MIG welded? TIG takes a lot longer to do but isn't entirely necessary.

So, more info really.
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:19 PM
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it is for a built from scratch rigid to fit a straight 4 suzuki. chain drive.


I asked them for info on price range to help me make up my mind on what i wana do and thats what they sent me.

If i had the skills i would hardtail the frame its in
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:32 PM
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What motor you got? Be better off looking for a part finished project maybe unless you're willing to pay the price to have exactly what you want. There's a Suzuki hardtail chain drive up for grabs on here at the moment for the price of the 'complete to suit' not inc the VAT
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:35 PM
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gsx750 its my old rat but was looking at other options. will have to look at the cash flow too.

unless anyone knows someone round my way that has a clue to what they are doing
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:54 PM
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this is worth biddin on ..... bsh

ebay hardtail gsx
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:57 PM
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thanks shaggy will keep an eye on that
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Old 09-01-2006, 09:01 PM
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best had thats a proper frame and well cheap ,
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Old 09-01-2006, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggy696969
best had thats a proper frame and well cheap ,

SSSHHHHHH, still got 4 days to bid on it.
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Old 09-01-2006, 09:38 PM
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Still needs more work. Take a look at the bracing on that frame.

Look closer.

What do you reckon?

Plus its standard running gear which is ****. Why build a custom then use crappy brakes / tyres etc. GSXR1100 USD front end'll go straight in if it's a GS1000 frame. Just so happens, in my shed ........
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Old 09-01-2006, 09:51 PM
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still cheaper than a grand for a frame the runnin gear can be left the frame is a bloody good starting block.
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Old 09-01-2006, 09:52 PM
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Guys?

Sorry. Has a girlie talking about building bikes put you off the thread?

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Old 09-01-2006, 09:53 PM
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Shaggy! There is life on this thread!

The guy doesnt trust his own welding. Dont encourage him to buy a half cock frame. Is it straight? Who built it? How does it stand on a jig?

These things we need to know!
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggy696969
this is worth biddin on ..... bsh
Now THIS looks even more fun for 700 quid ( but reserve not met tho' )
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:29 PM
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yea that keeps appearing on there , bet the handlings interesting with that rake. minxy what dyu want for the money plus its a standard 80's hardtail to my eyes so prob suit a 80's bike well. if you can do it yourself good for you but not every body can and also not everybodys loaded either so lets just try to help out rather than deter
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Old 10-01-2006, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggy696969
also not everybodys loaded either so lets just try to help out rather than deter
Yeah, and let's not encourage people to buy unfinished piles of ****e off of E-bay either.

OK. I probably need to expand on that a bit. If you can't weld, well enough to build a frame then the chances are you can't weld well enough to add all the brackets and the rest of the gubbins needed to finish a bare frame project.

You're better off finding a frame builder you trust to do it for you. That way you end up with exactly what you wanted, not just something you didn't get outbid for off of E-bay because you were the only person who didn't actually realise it was a bit of a dog.

Want a rigid? Come to my workshop and help yourself to one of the sawn up piles of crap outside the door. They're NFG but at least theyr'e free. And sawn up into small pieces I ought to add.......

It's only cheap if you can use it. And if you ain't qualified to judge........

Last edited by Blackjack; 10-01-2006 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 10-01-2006, 01:02 AM
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when i used to do bike frames i had a couple of frames come in for further work. both of those had come off ebay,both rigid. and both looked good if unfinished.
it was only because they needed bracing carried out that i retro fitted them on to my jig. they would'nt fit. they were quite away out, the one had it's headstock easily 4 degress out of true so that the engine cradle would only sit on the jig on the right hand side, and there was no way the rear spindle fixture would pass through both sides.

it's a case of buyer beware i'm afraid
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Old 10-01-2006, 01:05 AM
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oops think i started an argument


All of you have good valid points, i am in the process of learning to weld so wil make me own one day, but no need to run before i can walk.
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Old 10-01-2006, 05:49 PM
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[QUOTE=Blackjack]Yeah, and let's not encourage people to buy unfinished piles of ****e off of E-bay either.QUOTE]
Still a fuck sight cheaper to buy this and pay for mods to be done than to buy a complete new build frame , from what has now become much over priced so called frame builders.
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Old 10-01-2006, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
from what has now become much over priced so called frame builders
"so called frame builders". means what exactly?

i don't class myself as a frame builder anymore as my single spine vw thingies have more in common with structural steelwork, althogh they still have to do the job and be true.
malcolm of metal malarkey and blackjack ARE frame builders. both have worked for 2 of the uk's most well known frame makers, metisse in malcolms case and i think it was wasp for blackjack.

so them two alone should not be classed as "so called"
quality is not cheap.

many of the electrical parts i supply are listed made in china or japan.and the customer has a choice of which one they want. the chinese ones are cheaper, and also the ones most likely to let you down in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night in torrential rain
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Old 10-01-2006, 07:12 PM
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the frame that are on there site look great and well made. Personally i thought the price for the basic frame was ok but as i know nothing about it thought i would ask you lot.
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Old 10-01-2006, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggy696969
Still a fuck sight cheaper to buy this and pay for mods to be done than to buy a complete new build frame , from what has now become much over priced so called frame builders.

No, it isn't. That's exactly my point. It's far cheaper to go buy a complete running stock bike and have some one wrap a frame around that than it is to buy an unfinished project that you don't have the ability to sort out, or indeed all the parts. Certainly in the long run.

Example? Last one I sorted out for someone, Frame had cut, mitred and welded "bends" . XS 650 motor, XS250 forks and wheels so the chain wasn't ever going to line up with the wheel in the middle of the "frame", not that it would have mattered because since the XS250 has an 18" front wheel and shorter forks, the frame would have hit the road and had you off long before the chain wore out. So a second hand frame from stock, the loan of MY XS650 front end, quite a bit of machining to get the sprocket to line up and the spindle to fit the wheel slots just to get a rolling chassis. Then there was making an exhaust, a set of forwards, mounting the fuel tank, used the electrics and battery boxes that came with the replacement frame,wiring it, and mounting the rear fender (which is really a mudguard, but calling it a fender annoys Minxy...). Result, one rideable chop.

However it would have been a nicer bike for the same money if the guy had just bought a bike and asked me to chop it. And he still didn't actually have a front end for it because he was borrowing mine!

As for over priced, you got any idea how much it costs to have the workshop space to build frames? I could've bought a house with the money I've got tied up in tools and equipment. How much is a length of CFS3 tube these days?

Try not to confuse your uniformed opinion with reality, huh?
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Old 10-01-2006, 08:22 PM
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Are we feeling paronoid.


Fact is the guy wants advice on cheap frames and i dont give care who whinges ...... if all it needs is a few lugs or a bit of bracing sorting then that has to be cheaper than buying a wrap around one off. which is not what the original querry was .

A mate purchassed a so called one off framed streetfighter which had been built proffesionally ( so say ) secondhand , and fact of matter it was dangerous piece of crap , but he did have the knowledge and abillity to sort it .... by building a new frame .

I dont see why frames are so fucking expensive , ok so if your building a wrap around frame made with nasa grade materials thats fairy nuff , but if someone wants a basic hardtail frame which used to cost £150 then why the fuck is it over a grand now. Not everyone wants a light as fuck pro race framed bike some just want a chop or lowrider, whilst in this day and age people are out to make money with expensive one offs , isnt there a fucing whole in the market bigger than the channel tunnel for cheap but well welded softail / hardtail frames.

So come on guys instead of trying to justify your price
Build some cheap frames to take say gsxr motors or simalar and fill the niche . People like to put together their own bikes if the only thing that stops em is the price of the frames then why not offer a solution. The market is there. And since when has registering been such a problem as i often see many chops modern motors on mid 70's reg numbers .. ....

Food for thought ..... ( not for fat cats )

Last edited by shaggy696969; 10-01-2006 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 10-01-2006, 09:11 PM
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Whoah!

And chill.

The point (I think) is - you get what you pay for. You want a quality, safe, custom built frame to your spec then go to the professionals and get it right first time. You MAY be lucky and pick a good one up from ebay that is straight, correctly braced and will fit whichever donor motor you have stuffed in your shed - but you would be lucky.

So - now you know that there is plenty of advice available Baldy. You can weight up the pros and cons and see what works for you

Speaking from experience and like Black Jack said, its much better to get it right first time from both a safety AND cost point of view.

Next time you build a custom hardtail frame for someone Shaggy, let us know how long it took you to put together and what value you put on your time.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy696969
but if someone wants a basic hardtail frame which used to cost £150 then why the fuck is it over a grand now.
Several factors come into it, but the 2 most important ones are, IMHO:

1) The price of steel has rocketed in recent years and you would be seriously hard pressed to build a basic hardtail frame for £150 using the correct tubing.

2) Most pro builders nowadays are qualified engineers and their knowledge and skill does not come cheaply.

There are a few exceptions out there who haven't got a piece of paper to their name who can, and frequently do produce quality frames, but quality comes at a price and it is well worth paying.

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  #29  
Old 10-01-2006, 10:48 PM
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i agree with the price of steel thing, hehehe it pays my living.
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Old 10-01-2006, 10:53 PM
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so uncle bunt

john reed ? not qualified

you are looking at a price difference of nearly 10 x in 20 years does that seem right to you , even petrol and fags havent increased by that much , or are they being greedy ?

build in bulk and sell cheap to the abundant market .... not difficult to figure out really.

Last edited by shaggy696969; 10-01-2006 at 11:06 PM.
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