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  #31  
Old 15-10-2005, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Juke
your alright mate, don't wanna dig up your granny, just wanna get some justice for tossers who don't care much for the pain they cause animals. if that makes me a twat then a twat i be!!!!!

so where exactly would you draw the line? and who are you to draw it? so, scientist "A" works in a vivisection lab, so you bump him off, does that give his widow and kids the right to rub you out in return for robbing them of a family member? have you not been cruel to them? or did they deserve it by associating with him, in which case how far down the friend of a friend line do you go? technically, you could just attack anyone, based on the premise that somewhere along the line they, or someone they were related to, or knew, or once knew, once did something cruel to an animal.
the thing about all the animal rights activists that always confuses me is who exactly are they acting for? if a human is an animal, then isnt an act of cruelty done to them as much a "crime" in their eyes as any of their activities against animals? and who decides?
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  #32  
Old 15-10-2005, 07:17 PM
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these animals in these labs have no choice in thier fate, and as i have said it's not the experiments we disagree with, it's the way the animals are left to suffer that causes us the problems. of course we need to know medicenes are safe, but do animals have to suffer such pain for the cause? I would not agree to cause any lab tech pain just for doin his job, but if i have seen him on film punch a beagle in the face just coz it is barking with pain and anger then the bastard desrves all he gets don't he? If you can't agree with that then are you one of those who don't care about causing pain to animals? I bet your not really are ya?
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  #33  
Old 15-10-2005, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Juke
these animals in these labs have no choice in thier fate, and as i have said it's not the experiments we disagree with, it's the way the animals are left to suffer that causes us the problems. of course we need to know medicenes are safe, but do animals have to suffer such pain for the cause? I would not agree to cause any lab tech pain just for doin his job, but if i have seen him on film punch a beagle in the face just coz it is barking with pain and anger then the bastard desrves all he gets don't he? If you can't agree with that then are you one of those who don't care about causing pain to animals? I bet your not really are ya?

no, but you havent answered my question, i suspect its cos you cant or darent, and another one for you, if someone from the animal extremists makes a mistake, and someone innocent is hurt or killed, would they fall on their swords, metaphorically or literally, because of their screw up, or hold their hands up.?
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  #34  
Old 15-10-2005, 07:24 PM
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ii guess they would if they were wrong but all our evidence is taken from video footage taken whilst undercover so we know it's true what goes on and just what question do you want me to answer mate?
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  #35  
Old 15-10-2005, 07:29 PM
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I know maybe we could agree to disagree, now how about we all kiss and makeup before the forum bar chairs start flying
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  #36  
Old 15-10-2005, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juke
ii guess they would if they were wrong but all our evidence is taken from video footage taken whilst undercover so we know it's true what goes on and just what question do you want me to answer mate?

so where exactly would you draw the line? and who are you to draw it?

that one, or for the pedantic, those two
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  #37  
Old 16-10-2005, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by johnr
so where exactly would you draw the line? and who are you to draw it?

that one, or for the pedantic, those two


personaly i would draw the line at unneccesary pain caused, and as a human being who cares what happens to animals i think i have a right to protest. as i have already said we do not disagree with medical experiments on animals, just the methods used in some cases. maybe we should leave the animals alone for a while and test these drugs on the people in nick for rape, child molestation, murder, and animal cruelty!!!! or would you disagree with that too?
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  #38  
Old 16-10-2005, 08:20 AM
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Have a feeling me, that he would argue with anything just for the sake of arguing.
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  #39  
Old 16-10-2005, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tease
Have a feeling me, that he would argue with anything just for the sake of arguing.

well thats ok mate coz i will argue for britain if i believe in my opinion........maybe we should test the medicenes on him and shut him up for a while......bless 'im!!!
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  #40  
Old 16-10-2005, 06:46 PM
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if you remove your blinkers, you would see that i hae neither agreed or dissagreed with anything you said. though i think that your parting comment gives away your real oppinion on the subject. im not arguing for the sake of it, im genuinely interested in hearing where those on the extreme side of the animal experimentation debate would draw he line. its rare to get the opportunity, as they seldom put their heads over the parapet, and for what its worth, if you feel compelled to approach me and try and medicate me without my consent and whilst im unaware of it, how exactly do you differ from any other guy in a lab in a white coat? at least they claim to be doing it for research, you just dont ant to have your motives questioned.
tease, why, you know me so well, having neither met nor spoken nor corresponded with me, how do you form your judgement?
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  #41  
Old 16-10-2005, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnr
if you remove your blinkers, you would see that i hae neither agreed or dissagreed with anything you said. though i think that your parting comment gives away your real oppinion on the subject. im not arguing for the sake of it, im genuinely interested in hearing where those on the extreme side of the animal experimentation debate would draw he line. its rare to get the opportunity, as they seldom put their heads over the parapet, and for what its worth, if you feel compelled to approach me and try and medicate me without my consent and whilst im unaware of it, how exactly do you differ from any other guy in a lab in a white coat? at least they claim to be doing it for research, you just dont ant to have your motives questioned.
tease, why, you know me so well, having neither met nor spoken nor corresponded with me, how do you form your judgement?
take a chill pill mate (not tested on animals of course)
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  #42  
Old 16-10-2005, 10:30 PM
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There's a man who lives in a village near here

Someone put his name and address on the internet

His family now live in fear and their house has been attacked on numerous occasions.

His car has been trashed several times

His letter box is now nailed shut.

His children will not play out of the house.

His house is surrounded by CCTV cameras.

The family will not accept packages unless it is pre-arranged.

Does he work in vivisection?
No.

Does he in any way, shape or form, experiment on animals.
No.

He is an accountant for a company that had sold some materials to HLS.
Did he, personally, sell anything to HLS?
No

Someone had the bright idea of terrorising people who supplied HLS in order to cut off their supplies

That is NOT justification to make him and his family live in fear.

Don't bother responding or make a feeble attempt to justify the actions of some cretins who should have been exposed at birth.

Because I won't read it.
Nor will I respond to PM's

PS. These fuckwits rank alongside the total morons who broke into a mink farm, trashed it and released the mink.
Mink have no natural predators in this country and thanks to their action the water vole is close to extinction in this area.
Well done.
If those people were on fire I wouldn't piss on them to put them out.

Closed thread as far as I'm concerned.
There are ways to do things.
There are the wrong way to do things.
Their actions have put me so far against them that I think of them as terrorists who consider themselves above the law
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  #43  
Old 17-10-2005, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnr
tease, why, you know me so well, having neither met nor spoken nor corresponded with me, how do you form your judgement?
As to reading your comments and watching you act as if, when someone mentioned to being a prat of a group, you automatically shoved him to an extremist. He stated himself he didnt agree with what others did and yet you continued to badger him as if he did it himself.

My views run to the middle, as I verbosely stated earlier, I agree with controlled animal testing for medications, NOT cruelty, he agreed with me, I agree with ranching and raising animals for human consumption HUMANELY, again he agreed with me, I disagree with traditional fox hunting, but support culling and humane hunting of vermine and other animals who have no natural predators left, he agreed with me.

You, on the other hand, because he is a part of a group, have targetted him and want him to answer for others. I do not agree with that groups tactics, as he also stated he didnt. He MAY just want to do what the end statement of the group IS and use propper tactics to get there, it is the few who gain the notoriety that, IMHO is terrorism, that doesnt make the entire organisation terrorist. Some WITHIN this group have sullied the name for the rest, consider terrorists and the muslim religion.

My problem is with groups such as PETA who outwardly state extremist views.
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  #44  
Old 17-10-2005, 07:31 AM
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I'm bang alongside those opposed to animal cruelty, although I take cruelty to mean disregarding or taking pleasure in the pain or suffering of others i.e those sick ******** who torture pets. Don't think that entirely applies to scientific testing.

Testing cosmetics on animals is as horrible. But an omnivore (I'll eat anything) I think it is as morally justifiable to test medicines on animals as to kill and eat them (possibly even more so). Kill a chicken you feed a person for a day, test medicines on a chicken and that could save a hundred people's lives.
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  #45  
Old 17-10-2005, 08:16 AM
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should anyone agree with those who think i am a complete tosser for supporting the campaign against the cruelty inside animal medicene labs, then go to the 'shac' wbsite, click onto 'merchandise' then to 'watch cruelty inside HLS'.....then please voice your opinions. As i have said many times, it's the methods i am against not the reasons.
I can't believe this thread started out as a chance for us all to voice an opinion against the cruelty caused to those animals pictured in the national newspaper last week, and has ended up with me feeling i have to justify my beliiefs. I am happy to do that coz i can't stand un-neccesary pain caused to animals, kids or the elderly. and bikers have the reputation of being bullies and assholes eh? Guess this thread proves that is truly not the case.
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  #46  
Old 17-10-2005, 08:28 AM
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I've seen the PETA video about testing medicines on animals and it made me puke. It was no better than a torture chamber!
I think medicines could probably be tested on cloned human tissue, aborted fetus's and the like if we weren't stuck on the idea that human life is sacred.
  #47  
Old 17-10-2005, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juke
I can't believe this thread started out as a chance for us all to voice an opinion against the cruelty caused to those animals pictured in the national newspaper last week, and has ended up with me feeling i have to justify my beliefs.
I think anything that makes you look at yourself and re-evaluate your beliefs and personal lifestyle can be a great power for self improvement, if not for you, for others around you.
You have a belief, one echoed by many others, myself included.
There are many times I look introspectively and re-examine foundations to see if what I do is true to what I think, it is a self cleansing that many do not do and should. If you do not rethink and re-examine your own personal belief structure it soon becomes an anachronistic foundation that may not live up to what you do in every day life

WOW, where the hell did THAT come from?
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  #48  
Old 17-10-2005, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by tease
Have a feeling me, that we would argue with anything just for the sake of arguing.
No we wouldn't and nor would I, you fuckin, er, willy-knobber. and you smell.
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  #49  
Old 17-10-2005, 09:30 AM
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That was bitchy....................
  #50  
Old 17-10-2005, 10:27 AM
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S'funny how eating factory farmed food, smoking *sorry now Mrs Smug*, lack of exercise, drinking to excess etc eventually kills folk in a horrible way, strokes, paralysis, heart attack, various bowel diseases, cancers, I could go on. Also the number of elderly folk I see at work who are being killed by polypharmacy - over prescribed drugs. Sometimes we take them off all their drugs and they recover and go home.
I have recently become a vegan (was a vegetarian for years and years) not only because of animal cruelty but also the link between excessive dairy products and having a very bad manopause (haven't got to that stage yet), Japanese women who don't eat dairy but consume a lot of soya products don't get menopausal symptoms and also the link between excessive dairy and certain forms of arthritis.
Its not hard being a vegan round here, not only are we awash with farm shops but we have the excellent vegetarian shoes just a few miles away in Brighton AND we also have an excellent herbalist in the next village. She runs a small shop and makes every kind of herbal remedy including herbal pain killers, cough medicine, indigestion stuff etc etc. I'd rather take those unless I am dying than stuff made by the pharmaceutical industry.
Most of us become ill because we eat sh*t, drink and smoke too much (myself included). Mitch is mulling over a life time of lentils and soya bean curds and wondering if he has died and gone to hell He is very supportive tho'!

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  #51  
Old 17-10-2005, 10:33 AM
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P.S You can even get vegan biker boots now, how cool is that

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  #52  
Old 17-10-2005, 10:42 AM
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P.S You can even get vegan biker boots now, how cool is that

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What are they made from, QUORN?
  #53  
Old 17-10-2005, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juke
maybe we should leave the animals alone for a while and test these drugs on the people in nick for rape, child molestation, murder, and animal cruelty!!!! or would you disagree with that too?
That makes you no better than Klaus Barbie and the rest of the Nazi Experimentation Team.

Also, the so called proof you have could be set up by your so called undercover people. I do not believe it for one second as HLS is a regulated company, and, being listed on the FTSE, it would have to adhere to strict SE regulations.

I do hope that you don't take medicines that have been tested on animals. You never know, maybe one day your kids or family will get asthma - then you can watch as they are deprived of life saving drugs.

Animal Rights Extremists are terrorists - no better than Islamic Extremeists, the PIRA or ETA. They should be hunted down and slaughtered. All they do is degrade that which is essentially a noble cause - stopping the mistreatment of animals.
  #54  
Old 17-10-2005, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tease
As to reading your comments and watching you act as if, when someone mentioned to being a prat of a group, you automatically shoved him to an extremist. He stated himself he didnt agree with what others did and yet you continued to badger him as if he did it himself.


You, on the other hand, because he is a part of a group, have targetted him and want him to answer for others. I do not agree with that groups tactics, as he also stated he didnt. He MAY just want to do what the end statement of the group IS and use propper tactics to get there, it is the few who gain the notoriety that, IMHO is terrorism, that doesnt make the entire organisation terrorist. Some WITHIN this group have sullied the name for the rest, consider terrorists and the muslim religion.

My problem is with groups such as PETA who outwardly state extremist views.
tease, not that im asking you to answer for his views or actions,, but read your first parragraph, and then these quotes from juke,

I am a memeber of the animal rights group SHAC ( Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty) and we see this **** all the time. Nothing gets done coz the justice system just don't seem to want to help ths,

Opinions and relevant stories please. I will be passing info onto my group and we aim to do something to try and change the justice for abused animals.

now i may be wrong, it wouldnt be the first time, but i read this as we think this is cruel, the law doesnt do anything so we will administer our own justice? am i way off the mark? or or is it the typical very veiled threat of the animal rights extreme? im not targeting you, but i wonder if i am readin those words in a different way to you, or anyone else?, and lets not forget his/her parting comment to, or about me,

well thats ok mate coz i will argue for britain if i believe in my opinion........maybe we should test the medicenes on him and shut him up for a while......bless 'im!!!
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  #55  
Old 17-10-2005, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slob
Let's be honest folks how many of actually do anything about it? Aside from the acknowledged fanatics amongst us whose visions are somewhat questionable and the carers amongst us who provide sanctuary .... how many of us provide sanctuary and education for the youths, the mp's and the rest of the populace...
(
The most interesting posing on this thread for me this one.

What do you get called if you DO some thing about it? Stand up and say something?
You get called a fanatic!
The media lump you in with the occasional totally out of order action like digging someones gran up and you get ridiculed for your beliefs.
This is how most people are put off saying something - mind control at its most basic.
You wouldnt believe how many people, without knowing hardly any of the facts, think I am some kind of extreamist because I lived up a tree to stop it being cut down once. They jump on the media band waggon and call people who do similar things 'unwashed freeloaders' etc. (facts were - I had a bath every day and held down a job!)
So now anyone that thinks that extream, unnessasary animal cruelty is wrong and is prepared to stand up and say something - is themselves an extreamist. But just not liking pets being made to suffer is OK!
Dont know if Jake is aware of this, but in recent legislation there is a bill to make 'financial terrorism' a crime. Now Huntingdon life has been the target of some pretty clever protesting - hit them where it hurts - in the pocket. But to call this terrorism is as crazy as calling protesting outside McDonnalds or encouraging a veto on Nestle terrorism. Its just the financial organisations and companies getting the laws changed to make sure they win But if we cant protest by peaceful means - SOME people will go further.
Am I an eco warrior or an eco terrorist? Personally, I just think that I am a person that wont sit down and watch the distruction of the land I love. But at the end of the day the differance between a freedom fighter and a terrorist is looked on by historians as - who won. (terrorists never win - freedom fighters always do)
Good on ya Jake - but dont let the red rage get ya - that would make you as bad as them bud.
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  #56  
Old 17-10-2005, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cook1e
Now Huntingdon life has been the target of some pretty clever protesting - hit them where it hurts - in the pocket. But to call this terrorism is as crazy as calling protesting outside McDonnalds or encouraging a veto on Nestle terrorism.
It has also been the target of some pretty serious terrorist activity. I hope you are not condoning that aswell? Also, there were some of these idiot protestors kicking off outside Tuffnels depot next to where I work. All because Tuffnels do work for HLS. How right is that kind of threatening behaviour?

Mind you, they did scatter like ants when a truck was driven at them
  #57  
Old 17-10-2005, 11:14 AM
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being totally fluffy I am, and always have been, 100% against animal testing for any reason - whether it be cosmetic or for human health

penicillin is harmful to rodents so it was never tested on animals - and a good job too or we would never have started to use it

although it has now been over-used and we have MRSA etc which are resistant to penicillin......

but I digress


I have lost loved ones to disease, I have had illnesses myself - but I still can't justify making animals suffer just to ease my pain

hurt no living thing.........




none of the above means I condone the terrorism perpetrated by the animal activists.


also - just because some of the anti animal-testing brigade are terrorists it doesn't mean we all are
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Old 17-10-2005, 11:15 AM
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Just to repeat:

Anyone who advocated experimentation on humans is, in my opinion, no better than the Nazi's.
  #59  
Old 17-10-2005, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doro
although it has now been over-used and we have MRSA etc which are resistant to penicillin......
Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus is resistant to most antibiotics, not just penicillin. That is not down to overuse, it is a natural evolution of most virii - they, like we, adapt.
  #60  
Old 17-10-2005, 11:18 AM
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what? not even paedos?
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