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Old 31-10-2014, 02:36 PM
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Default Easy touch

I saw, on the news yesterday, that the French, well the Mayor of Calais is complaining because her town is filling up with people who want to come to Britain because we are an easy touch due to our benefits system..She doesn't want us to stop handing benefits to everyone who crosses our borders, Oh no! that would be against the EU rules..she want's to allow everyone free access across the channel and then they are our problem.. Of course under EU rules any illegals caught at our border have to be returned to the country that they entered from..and that is France..

With Ukip trying to get to No 10 on the promise of getting us out of Europe and the French screaming at us to move our border across the channel, is it just possible that the men in suits might be getting a bit hot under the collar..

Of course the people in power want to stay in the EU, they make almost all of their money there..All those public schoolboys who go into politics so that they can become Euro MPs, the accountants writ large, that get all that money for arranging EU grants, the lawyers and all those asylum cases, the taxes. Getting rid of the EU would cost them all a fortune, and as they are the ones in power there is very little hope that we will ever move back across the water, take back our fishing rights and remember that we rule a small island and not half the world.

Still it was a nice thought for those of us without at least a million pounds in the bank..And it would be nice to be a family living in a nice warm country and having someone living in Britain sending us more money than we have ever seen before so that we could be one of the richest families in the village without having to lift a finger. Long live Great Britain..the richest country in the world..

John.
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Old 31-10-2014, 02:39 PM
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If they are in France, why aren't they receiving benefits from the French, surely EU law requires it should be so....
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Old 31-10-2014, 02:40 PM
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and why don't the French send them back to the country they entered from..

John.
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:49 AM
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and why don't the French send them back to the country they entered from..

John.
They tried that twice before John, remember?

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Old 01-11-2014, 01:15 PM
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They tried that twice before John, remember?

Chopper
Just like the French, surrender responsibility for their country to the British, already done it twice already......
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:31 PM
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I signed up for The Peoples Pledge a while back, and got all excited when parliment voted through a bill to have a referendum on the EU which ever party got in, but now Cleggy and his mates have squashed it. He is one of the knobs who is in line for a job and pension off the EU, and is not going to mess it up now.

Here is an edited piece of the letter I received.

.................................................. .................................................


Dear Supporter,

Just two weeks ago, the EU Referendum Bill received its latest overwhelming vote of support from MPs.

But this week, the Bill's sponsor, Bob Neill MP, has revealed that this popular Bill has been "killed off" by the Lib Dems using “procedural games”.

It appears that the Lib Dems have refused to allow the government to give the Bill a ‘money resolution’, which is required for any Bill to continue through Parliament.

A money resolution can only be tabled by a government minister and, within the coalition, that requires Lib Dem approval.

This act by Nick Clegg and his party is an outrageous back-room snub to the clearly expressed views of Parliament, 77% of businesses and the vast majority of people who want a vote on Britain's membership of the EU.

Clegg's hypocrisy

Not long ago, Nick Clegg was trying to pick up votes by claiming to want a "Real referendum on Europe". That, in itself, was a move to wriggle out of backing a referendum on the EU's Lisbon Treaty. But this week, Nick Clegg has blocked putting that 'real referendum' into law.

Worse, he has not done so by turning up in Parliament and openly voting against the Bill. He has done so behind closed doors, by refusing the Bill the procedural documents it needs to continue.

These are base political games. With this act, Clegg not only harms the chances of an EU referendum; he further harms the public reputation of our entire democratic system.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:08 PM
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I was reading a trucking magazine (at work) and they mentioned that we bought an X ray scanner for the port of Calais, which can scan a whole truck to check for illegals inside.

Despite asking for our help and letting us pay for it and install it, the Froggies won't use it because it infringes human rights laws to X ray someone without a signed consent form.

The article was headed "You couldn't make it up"
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:20 PM
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I can't help thinking the people who run this country and it's borders are total idiots..

How many brain cells would it have taken to reply that the truck had a customs list of what it contained and nowhere on that list did it say there were people..So how could the machine be X-raying people..

They could have said they were scanning for drugs..

John.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:04 PM
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It gets worse. I went out on a road check a couple of weeks ago.

We stopped five foreign trucks, of them three hadn't paid the road user levy.

This can happen because we don't check them when they get off the ferry.
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:37 PM
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If they are in France, why aren't they receiving benefits from the French, surely EU law requires it should be so....
No ewok it doesnt... as a now long term european migrant I can tell you uk is the only country that gives money to any foreigner that turns up. nowhere else gives anything to anyone who hasnt or isnt paying in... even the equivilent of jobseekers allowence which supposedly is europe wide.... isnt. you only qualify if you can prove yourself fit and able to work... and that includes speaking the language to a reasonable level. also without a id number which is like trying to aquire gold dust you cant register for medical care buy a car rent an appartment....
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:08 PM
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i have a solution, i think. blow up the sodding tunnel! before that was built we never had as big a problem as this. ive said for the last few years that whoever sorts out the immigration issue in this country, will win the next election. its the biggest thing on peoples minds today. does that make me racist , i dont think so, but i know this country needs to take care of its own people first, something which we are failing to do at the moment. most of my family are ex service, they cant even get proper treatment here, my dear old ma also, it sucks. rule brittania.......
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:21 PM
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Of course it doesn't make you racist - I'm sick of people confusing immigration with racism, this is a throwback to the 50s and 60s when most of the immigration was from the caribbean and asia, and attitudes to what were called 'black people' were very different to what they are now.

I'm totally against letting any MORE immigrants into this country - and I don't care what race, colour, religion or anything else they are - WE'RE FULL UP!!!!
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:48 AM
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This may well be an unpopular view.... but I dont think its immigration thats the problem ... its unmonitored immigration. Sadly the work ethic of a vast amount of people in the UK has gone done the shitter over the last decade or two, if you took out all the qualified immigrants such as doctors, nurses social workers etc... and then the low paid jobs that we cant manage without... the whole country would grind to a halt overnight... because the lazy, idle arsewipes we breed nowadays wont work... Ive looked for work in the UK... if your not too fussy what you do... there is work to be had. But in the uk we (used figuratively) have taught the younger generations that manual labour\dirty work\lower paid work is beneath them... so immigrants come and do it instead... because they dont care about that, they just want the chance to support their families...

Its the ones with out language skills\or ability to work that should be turned away...
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:26 AM
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Nope .......... why do you think all immigrants want to work at manual labour\dirty work\lower paid work when their family can be supported by the state benefits????

Its because the pathetic politicians represent themselves, NOT any of the electorate that voted them in, need to keep their jobs and if they go against the party line, they wont have a job.

As well as the reason mentioned in the other posts, no other EU country pays out like we do.

There are a large number of UK residents that WILL and DO take on the "dirty" jobs, my other half's son is cleaning in a college, which involves cleaning out toilets etc, this is so he can actually work. He was challenged at work as in "why haven't you got a proper job??, this is not the type of job for a young lad (he's 27) ........ to which he replied " its better than being on the dole"

It would be interesting to find out the figures of immigrants on the dole compared to those who actually work ........... but those figures will never be released, far too dangerous.

Use the same sort of criteria that the Aussies use, but then again EU law forbids that and as I said we seem to be the only country in the EU that takes any notice.

We had some of our guys working in Spain, and I kicked off about the number of hours they were being expected to work, more than 12 hours which is the EU Working time directive, to be told that "we don't take any notice of that, this is our country with our laws", this was from senior managers. Working 15-16 hours was seen as normal and accepted by all.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:49 PM
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This may well be an unpopular view.... but I dont think its immigration thats the problem ... its unmonitored immigration. Sadly the work ethic of a vast amount of people in the UK has gone done the shitter over the last decade or two, if you took out all the qualified immigrants such as doctors, nurses social workers etc... and then the low paid jobs that we cant manage without... the whole country would grind to a halt overnight... because the lazy, idle arsewipes we breed nowadays wont work... Ive looked for work in the UK... if your not too fussy what you do... there is work to be had. But in the uk we (used figuratively) have taught the younger generations that manual labour\dirty work\lower paid work is beneath them... so immigrants come and do it instead... because they dont care about that, they just want the chance to support their families...

Its the ones with out language skills\or ability to work that should be turned away...
Pat puts on her tin hat ready to repel hostile shots
I agree, there isn't a problem with immigrants that want to work (though there are too many unemployed and not enough jobs) but we need to get people into work that live here before we take in more. Worrying about Immigration is not Racist, ranting about sending them back probably is. We need to reintroduce the work ethic into our younger people and get rid of the Gangsta 'get rich or die trying' attitude. I did my 50 years in a good number of jobs, some I loved and others I detested. I have done everything from cleaning toilets to being a Company Director. I have done 2 full time and 1 part time jobs to keep the family fed and a roof over our heads. Every race has its criminals and idle and those are the ones we do not want. The ONLY good thing about the EU is the European Arrest Warrant that means foreign nationals can be arrested by the British police for crimes committed in their home country, they can then be sent back for trial and possible imprisonment.
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:22 PM
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The thing I find so difficult to accept is that all of those people who come into the country are not illegal immigrants, they are assylum seekers..They are all fleeing from a country that wants to kill them, and as they have destroyed their passports so that we can't query them we never know which country that is...Then when they get to be called British citizens they can't wait to go back to the country they originally fled from to become freedom fighters..or radicalised muslims..

If I sought assylum from Cameron's oppressive regime and was accepted by a warm country that gave me a fully furnished house, money and even paid me an allowance for any family I had over here I would never want to leave..

John.
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:53 PM
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I agree with the sentiment that we need to slow immigration, not stop it. From what I understand of various countries immigration policies, the answer must be, borrow the best bits. Usa will not let in on basis of crinimal records. Add that idea to immigration shopping basket. Australia, will want you to prove you have skills and income to support you and any dependants before they grant access. I like this policy. Seems very sensible. I have to say asylum seekers is a thorny issue. My grandparents on my mums side of the family came in on this basis, I have little doubt thd Russians would have done away with them if sent back. They worked very hard and contributed a lot during and after ww2. I cannot immagine having to flee my home, my family etc in genuine fear of my life, I would not want to send someone back to a summary execution. However the tide of economic migrants we face is without doubt too much. We need to deal with it. Particuarly African continent immigration across to Italy and that part of the coast really needs dealing with.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:46 PM
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New Zealand has a policy, or did when I left there, that you were not allowed to live there unless at least one of your grandparents was born there..and believe it or not they did it because when Britain joined the EU they said that commonwealth citizens were not allowed to live in Britain unless at least one of their grandparents was born in Britain..

It seems funny that we don't allow Kiwi's Canadians or Aussies to settle here but we do allow everyone else..

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Old 03-11-2014, 05:43 PM
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The thing about asylum seekers, the internation rules say that they should seel asylum in the first safe country they arrive in - well unless they get a direct flight from their country to Britain, there is NO WAY that's us!

But they still want to come here cos our leaders are stupid!
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:41 PM
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lets not mix up assylum seekers with economic migrants/immigrants they are two very different things. as an economic migrant myself i know that to live here in spain and before here portugal. we had to ... prove we had money to support ourselves and either a job which enabled us to pay contributions or good paid for health insurance... no benefits no medical care apart from a&e which my last visit in portugal cost me fifty euros to walk in the door before any treatment.... not anywhere else in europe does freebies rule...
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:52 PM
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i believe in the freedom of economic migrants. we should all be free to get a job where we choose. the key words though are get a job... if i dont get a job here i go hungry no handouts nothing.. which is as it should be. those in uk without a job should be returned to their country of origin... but at whos expense...
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:59 PM
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many years ago I lived in Great Britain, It wasn't the best place in the world but I could afford to live there..At that time if I wanted a job I could always get one at a local factory, I could afford a beat up old car to drive to work and I could afford the rent..there was always work with the offer of a pension and a couple of weeks paid holiday each year..There was no such thing as a zero hours contract, we had rules and we had unions to enforce them..

Then one day the government changed everything, they said we were converting to the metric system to come in line with the rest of Europe..This would open a vast new market for all of our businesses..

Very shortly after that because our factories had to close to convert their tools to metric and had nowhere to sell the old imperial tools the British customers looked to Europe to buy bricks, wood, copper waterpipes and cables..By the time the British factories had retooled and opened up again, not only had they spent most of their money, but the British buyers had found cheaper suppliers in Europe and were gone, and the vast new market was saturated with suppliers that had been there all the time..

Then we had the three day week and now the only factories left in Britain are owned by people so far overseas their countries don't even touch Europe.

That is history now..

So why do all the foreign countries think we are the richest people in the world..Well today the answer hit me..

I was watching a TV advert. and someone was telling me that a charity was supplying water for someone and could not do it without my help and that I should send £5 to .....

These people look at a new dam or well or school or support system with a big notice saying something like 'Paid for by the generosity of the people of Britain' and they must think that their own government can't afford to pay for the bare neccessities of life but the British people have so much money that they can afford to give it away to every other country in the world.. so they want to move closer to the source of all that money..

As long as we keep donating to overseas charities we are just hanging a big sign over Britain saying 'FREE MONEY HERE' we can hardly complain about immigrants as long as we keep paying for them to come here can we..

Unfortunately if we were to stop giving to these charities a lot of people would be out of work.. all those Directors of the charities, the accountants, the managers the media people the organisers the phone centres in India the overseas distributers and that is not all, think of all those people who give hours of free labour to run all those charity shops in small towns.

John.
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:58 PM
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those in uk without a job should be returned to their country of origin... but at whos expense...
It would be cheaper to pay to send them back than pay for years and years to keep them here in idleness and house them and their families!

And while we're on the subject - what about this business of people claiming family allowance (or child benefit I think they call it now) for children they've left back home, wherever that might be. I bet other countries don't do that either, although our government always blames the EU.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:47 PM
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keeps us fighting amongst ourselves whilst the rulers of the economy of this country fiddle their Tesco accounts and fuck off with all the cash. the rules/enforcement of immigration won't change whilst it is a strategy to keep the rich rich and provide a scapegoat for everyone else grasping the shitty end.

Britain's youth does have something of a workshy attitude - I know because I teach them. BUT, with near 30% unemployment for the under 20s, is it really a surprise? They can try all they like, they won't get the job because they lack experience, and can't get the experience...I'm sure you know the tale.

Unmonitored immigrants do shitty sweatshop labour in fear of their lives or the lives of their family. Criminal enterprise runs this, and keeps a low radar by not impacting the work opportunities of the masses. Legal immigration provides no net change in indigenous employment according to a 30 year study, but that study holds no net change for lose a doctor gain a burger flipper.

Immigration and benefits is another drop in the ocean. The vast majority of benefits in theis country is 1) pensions (60%) 2) top-up benefits for those whose employment doesn't provide a living wage (30%). The remaining 10% goes on long-term unemployed and newly arrived immigrants.

There is a simple solution to the benefits issue though: no benefits for anyone who hasn't contributed. A bit like Pat, I'm not fussed about which patch of dirt you landed on when you dropped out of your mother's cunt, and if you want to go somewhere and work fair play. If you don't, then you get nothing. I don't see why a domestic sponge is preferable to a foreign one.

As for the old immigrants drive down wages guff...wages keep getting cut to keep the shareholders happy...it's nothing to do with supply of labour forces. About time the government forced the wealthy companies to pay fair and pay their taxes. They'll claim there ain't no money for these companies to pay that...yet every shareholders meeting says different. In all of human history there hasn't been more money available to pay people a living wage. But living wages won't come whilst the rich can Gucci-leather their yachts.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:50 PM
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I'm sure part of the problem is legal aid..Lawyers are the richest profession in this country, possibly in the world and half of them are collecting payment from legal aid to keep people in this country and the other half are collecting more legal aid money to deport the same people.

John.
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:53 PM
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I must correct Fenrir about benefits.... Pensions are not a benefit but a paid for State Pension, at least for those who have worked for most of their lives. A small amount of pensioners except (mostly single women who were forced to pay a half stamp, way back when) who have to have their pensions topped up with Benefits. Most people who have worked for government or larger firms should have a company pension to boost their income and therefore (like myself) actually pay tax and do not receive benefits. It actually annoys me that I paid tax on my earnings and paid my company pension out of money that was taxed, which then had it's profits taxed and now it is taxed when I get my own money back. Benefits, all-in-all, are a minor part of government spending and the amount that the Inland Revenue have allowed businesses to avoid tax through secret deals would dwarf all benefit payments.
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Old 05-11-2014, 08:22 PM
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I must correct Fenrir about benefits.... Pensions are not a benefit but a paid for State Pension, at least for those who have worked for most of their lives. A small amount of pensioners except (mostly single women who were forced to pay a half stamp, way back when) who have to have their pensions topped up with Benefits. Most people who have worked for government or larger firms should have a company pension to boost their income and therefore (like myself) actually pay tax and do not receive benefits. It actually annoys me that I paid tax on my earnings and paid my company pension out of money that was taxed, which then had it's profits taxed and now it is taxed when I get my own money back. Benefits, all-in-all, are a minor part of government spending and the amount that the Inland Revenue have allowed businesses to avoid tax through secret deals would dwarf all benefit payments.
I'm happy to be corrected on my nomenclature here, sloppy work on my behalf. I should have referenced 'welfare' as the media-go-to-phrase for all State payments (not a correct use of the phrase, but so common it is now the understood phrase).

A Big +1 on the whole tax avoidance/evasion hole being bigger than almost any stream of government expenditure.

An addendum to benefits spending plan I suggested...
Choices
- tax the workers, give to the not working; non-too-popular
- tax companies spend the money on government initiatives (like FDR in the US); good for short term support, but history suggests this isn't too sustainable
- cut taxes and hope the profits trickle down through investment into more jobs; unlikely given the popularity of diamond studded 24k gold iPhones you can but at Harrods (every 6 months or so to keep up with the techno side too) or the £11'000 leather jacket on the rack there too
- tax companies but give them the money back to take on staff they could not otherwise pay to employ. When the company has grown to sustain the new employees, they take responsibility for funding them and the gov' funds the next round of new staff.

I'm happy to be corrected here, but does option 4 only make sense to me or am I missing something economic-y?
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2014, 10:28 PM
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John Hopkins John Hopkins is offline
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I think you are missing something in all of your solutions..

If you have a bar of chocolate and you nibble at it, no matter how big it is you will end up with no chocolate, and even if you don't nibble on it yourself other people or rodents will and the end result will be the same..

It doesn't matter how much the government can take in taxes, if we leave the door open to everyone who comes along sooner or later the tax money will be gone.

The EU started off with nine countries who could all afford the membership fees.. In january this year there were twenty eight countries with a total population of well over half a billion people..another eight countries are waiting to join the EU..

Now Britain has a listed population of about 64 million people with an unknown number or illegal immigrants and more arriving each day.. so how much tax can the government take from the registered population before they have to do away with the rubbish collection, the health services, the schools, the border controls, the armed services and the police force..and then the pensions that you worked all your life for..

Being a school teacher doesn't give you the facts, it gives you statistics which are produced by the government, and those statistics are a form of propaganda for peacetime..they are tailored in the public interest.. MP's have a catch phrase.."because it is the right thing to do." and too many of the public hear it and say "well it must be right because everyone agrees with it"

When the figures are published in the budget each year they are meaningless they mix yards, kilograms and pints..
This year we had an increase of 1.5% of GDP with a slight downturn in unemployment and an increase in exports..Government borrowing is up 3.3% with a forecast of a reduction of 2% in real terms over the next five years, we have set aside 1 billion pounds for the ebola crisis and will increase charity donations to third world by 2%.. the minimum wage will be set at £6.75.. to pay for this there will be an increase in the tax on fuel, cigarettes and alcohol, .. because the EU have demanded a payment of 1.7 billion pounds before December 5th based on Britain's income from drugs and prostitution, all drug dealers and prostitutes will have to register for income tax..

I reckon I could write the next budget speech, all I would need is a few fat men in the front row to mutter "hear, hear" every few minutes and some on the other side to make rude noises..

John.
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Last edited by John Hopkins; 05-11-2014 at 10:31 PM.
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  #29  
Old 11-11-2014, 02:33 PM
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  #30  
Old 11-11-2014, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir View Post
- tax companies but give them the money back to take on staff they could not otherwise pay to employ. When the company has grown to sustain the new employees, they take responsibility for funding them and the gov' funds the next round of new staff.

I'm happy to be corrected here, but does option 4 only make sense to me or am I missing something economic-y?
I'm old enought to remember when this was actually the case! And it worked cos companies could afford to take on trainees and get them up to speed, at which time they were contractually obliged to stay working for that company for a minimum time (think it might have been two years) in order for the company to get the benefit of the training they'd put into them - sadly this requirement was deemed to be against 'uman rights or some such. As a result, companies won't train people who are going to disappear as soon as they start being useful.

The other side of that coin of course was the apprenticeship system, where youngsters were taken on for a small wage to be trained up and then take their place in that company on a proper wage. Companies started dumping apprentices as soon as they were qualified in favour of taking on new ones who wouldn't expect to be paid proper money.
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