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  #1  
Old 25-02-2016, 08:44 AM
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I was talking to a school teacher friend, who was complaining about the governments latest requirements for primary education.

By the age of 11 they have to understand such phrases as "subordinate conjunction".

I have O level English language, but I had to look that up.

People often complain about having to learn algebra and such like maths back in my day, and say trhey have never had to use it in every day life. Whereas most engineer types will be using maths daily.

But who of us needs to know what a "subordinate conjunctio2n is?
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Old 25-02-2016, 09:34 AM
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Go on Harry tell us what it means

Our 8 year old grandson came home the other day and said he wants a Budda!

When they have sports days they send out letters to the parents asking them not to bring alcohol or drugs onto school property

The homework? Our Becca often rings Ann asking what thing's mean, come on our grandsons are 6 & 8 how on earth can they understand things that we can't

OK I looked it up http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/subo...onjunction.htm
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Old 25-02-2016, 11:59 AM
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The frightening thing is that many of the teachers, with a degree in english, have had to learn it so as to teach it.


IMO while the kids are learning this they are missing out on summat important.
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Old 25-02-2016, 12:22 PM
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I think you've got a good point Harry and another thing; that third example down.. We had it drummed into our heads never to use 'Because' as the beginning of a sentence, plus little things that my kids teachers do now like putting a comma before the word and or but. When did the rules change?
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Old 25-02-2016, 12:49 PM
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Dam right

They should be teaching them their ABC's and 123's not how to use a spell checker

It seems every kid in the country has a tablet

Our grandchildren the older one at least 8 doesn't seem to want to know if it's not electronic he won't go anywhere without his dam tablet, he won't touch anything that might be dirty, i hope that it's just a phase but to be honest i don't know
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Old 25-02-2016, 01:20 PM
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Too work in the education system must be an absolute nightmare

Being dyslexic myself I understand some of the problems some word's I just can't get my head round the bloody L word that means too undo something but not all the way, some days i can be stuck on that word for an hour or more
Punctuation confuses the hell out of me as well

If you have a couple of kids like me in your class it must be disheartening

A few years ago My mate's boy was diagnosed as being dyslexic he asked me for advice "please Dai can you help you know about his problems what can we do "
It turned out that the lad was really interested in bike's and computer games my advise was get him magazines and books on bikes and computer games
A couple of months later my mate was called into the school the headmaster wanted to know who was giving the lad private lessons as he was coming on so well in class, he didn't believe that it was simply giving him something that he was interested in that could make such a difference

Even today I struggle reading something that i don't have an interest in i can read a bike mag or workshop manual with no problem but give me a TV guide and I struggle

Edit: I'm also ambidextrous when i was in school I had a English teacher that used to hit me and other pupil's on the hand with a 3' ruler if we picked up a pen or pencil with our left hand
I thought those days where over but our youngest grandson came home from school and said " my teacher said that I am not to draw with this hand " he was showing his mam his left hand!
Luckily his mam our bek is a school governer (spelling) and the teacher has since been dragged over the coals about this she said "but sometimes he uses his right hand "
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Old 25-02-2016, 02:36 PM
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Funny we were talking about that left/right thing yesterday - Mike is generally a leftie, although he's a bit ambidextrous as well. He's 77 now so it was a very long time ago his teacher tried to make use a pen with his right hand, but his dad went down the school and told the teacher exactly what was what!

And my 9 year old grandson has dyslexia quite badly but the school imported a special reading system and a teaching assistant who knew how to use it, and it's made a huge difference to him, the othet thing that's helped him a lot is that they have made sure he understands that it's not his fault he finds it difficult and he's not stupid!
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Old 25-02-2016, 02:58 PM
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There are two things that I remember vividly about my school day's apart from the English teacher with the big ruler

1. The teacher that wrote "Anyone can copy off the board why not you"

2. The maths teacher that marked my homework with every sum wrong, my dad looked at it said most of them are right! The next day he went to the school to front out the teacher, to tell him the sums were right not wrong, the teacher said "I have the answers here he got them wrong" when my dad told him to look at the sums I had done he agreed they were mostly right but i had copied them from the board wrong, that teacher marked the homework by just looking at the answers he had down, not looking at the sum's we had done
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Old 25-02-2016, 08:07 PM
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I look at the education system with dismay.
It seems as if every kid is expected to get a degree after school is over.
My daughter stayed in education until she was 26.
6th form, university and then 5 years studying for vocational. qualifications. I genuinely don't know how she stuck it for so long.
Put her life on hold for that long.
It's nuts and tbh it's unecessary.

What kind of jobs are available for them at the end of it?
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Old 25-02-2016, 11:02 PM
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I feel the same way.

My older daughter was intending to go to Teacher Training College (they didn't all have to get degrees at that time, they actually went to a college that taught them how to teach!) but she didn't get the grades she wanted so she got a job doing material control in a factory. When the factory got a computer controlled picking system everyone went to Rose when they didn't understand it so they pout her in charge of it.
When they advertised for a trainee programmer she went for the job and got it, and they sent her on lots of computer courses.
Later they gave a job she reckoned should have been hers to an incomer with a degree in something completely unrelated and a short computer course, so the next time she was headhunted she went to a new job which she's been in for years now, she currently manages one of their two offices and has been offered a directorship!

Younger daughter worked as a Saturday assistant at Woolworths, then joined their A level management trainee course, became an assistant manager then a manager, then moved on to be a manager at Asda. Made enough money to have her own house, spiffy little car, then sold the car, bought a campervan and went travelling, came back, started an internet business with her now ex-partner, and trained to be a paddleboarding instructor.

So they both have great lives and are exactly where they want to be, doing what they want to do, without having any degrees at all - who can ask for anything more from life?
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Old 26-02-2016, 06:40 AM
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"Subordinate Conjunction" - Whatever!
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Old 26-02-2016, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BikerGran View Post
I feel the same way.

My older daughter was intending to go to Teacher Training College (they didn't all have to get degrees at that time, they actually went to a college that taught them how to teach!) but she didn't get the grades she wanted so she got a job doing material control in a factory. When the factory got a computer controlled picking system everyone went to Rose when they didn't understand it so they pout her in charge of it.
When they advertised for a trainee programmer she went for the job and got it, and they sent her on lots of computer courses.
Later they gave a job she reckoned should have been hers to an incomer with a degree in something completely unrelated and a short computer course, so the next time she was headhunted she went to a new job which she's been in for years now, she currently manages one of their two offices and has been offered a directorship!

Younger daughter worked as a Saturday assistant at Woolworths, then joined their A level management trainee course, became an assistant manager then a manager, then moved on to be a manager at Asda. Made enough money to have her own house, spiffy little car, then sold the car, bought a campervan and went travelling, came back, started an internet business with her now ex-partner, and trained to be a paddleboarding instructor.

So they both have great lives and are exactly where they want to be, doing what they want to do, without having any degrees at all - who can ask for anything more from life?

They are prime examples BG of how a degree is no substitute for having talent and a desire to get on. Good to know they are getiiing on well.

My older brother is a top class engineer. He worked for Rolls Royce on ship engines and he used to commission them at sea. He worked for the coal board, he worked in F1 and 24 hour endurance racing. He now works for Jaguar and runs his own section. He is so skilled that they have him in tutoring the new engineer recruits 2 days a week.
He hasnt got a degree. Doesn't need one.
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Old 26-02-2016, 01:06 PM
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But Teachers have no input whatsoever into what is taught. Successive governments since WWII have changed education every time they got into power. Over the past couple of decades there has been this move into measuring everything by what piece of paper you have. So schools now train children to pass exams, there is very little education happening. The thought of education for the simple pleasure of learning new things is treated as horrible. You must get qualifications to get a job that is what "education" is now for, not for instance learning music so although you work in a Tesco's you love playing music, it's not about turning out well rounded individuals, it's about turning out teenagers as Job Fodder, about ticking boxes so children have 10 pieces of paper that they know how to pass but don't actually know the subject.

It's happening with my children, this term they are being taught to pass their SAT exam because if they don't pass well enough the school and teachers are threatened by the Government. A government in which none of the ministers of education have ever done anything with education before.
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Old 26-02-2016, 05:14 PM
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There are an increasing number of children being 'home schooled' because their parents are aware of this. That's ok if you have the time and the know-how to so it succesfully, but I think the children miss out on learning to rub along with all sorts, which is another aspect of education.

Of course children in school no longer learn about being part of a team, as the sports fields are being sold off, nor about knowing how to lose without having a meltdown over it - because we can't have anyone losing, oh no!
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Old 26-02-2016, 05:30 PM
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One of the kids who lives local was supposed to be 'Home Schooled' as he had been kicked out of every available school in the area. The problem is that he is just hanging around with a street gang all day and learning nothing of value.....

How is it that parents get fined for taking kids on holiday in term time but nobody seems to check on 'Home Schooling' or kids are kept out of school as a punishment?
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Old 26-02-2016, 09:39 PM
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They do check on home schooling - they send inspectors round every so often - this is what my local authority says
Quote:
The visiting inspectors will need to see some evidence on which they can reach a judgement. It is helpful to have available examples of completed work, both written and practical, books used, examples of paintings or models made and perhaps a diary of what has been done.
It is a real help if work can be dated because it enables the inspectors to chart the progress your child is making.
There will be quite detailed discussions too. Do not worry that you are not an
"educational expert". You are an expert concerning your own child and that is the first step. Talking with your child provides a very helpful insight into his or her learning for the visitor, as well as providing feedback for your child from another adult. Most children find this beneficial, and the visitors certainly do.
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Old 27-02-2016, 06:12 AM
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I'm so glad I haven't got any kids!
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Old 27-02-2016, 01:50 PM
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We all know that councils are underfunded (except when it comes to the bigwigs wages and expenses) so the chances of a visit are probably negligible. The other problem is that NO school will take him because of his disruptive behaviour, so what would they do if he wasn't learning much, though the best option would be care so someone could batter him round the ring for a change.....
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Old 28-02-2016, 05:13 PM
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I have two sons with Dyslexia. Both of them struggled in school and tried very hard to improve, but their GSCE grades were always going to be down compared to everyone else in their class. My wife and I always advocated they find something they are good at and go for it. One is now a chef in an award winnin restaurant and the other is a veritable wizard with a spanner.

Judging someone purely on their academic skills, as the current government insists upon, will always give a false economy when comparing schools in various areas. Current goverment policy is setting everyone up to fail and designed create a subservient low skilled and thus poorly paid workforce to exploit.

Investing in Vocational skills is always going to provide a far better level of skills our kids need in order to get on in life and be a productive person capable of looking after themselves with little or no extra guidance. This promotes free thinking and helps grow the economy by spreading the wealth around.
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Old 28-02-2016, 06:46 PM
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Believe it or not I did manage to get one qualification in my life

Dry and wet stone walling but as you may have guessed it have spent most of my life either operating machinery or on the spanners I did have a go at dispatching for a year or so long ago in my youth

Unless passing driving tests count
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Old 01-03-2016, 01:47 PM
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Funny isn't it, there was a massive shake up of the education system about 25 years ago - simply because it hadn't been changed for years. Since that shake up the system has never worked right and has been fiddled around with year on year and government on government.

Before that shake up we had an education system that was the envy of the world. The teachers we have now are the output result from that 'updated' system.

My neighbour is a long retired schoolteacher and she is aghast at the standard of output our education now offers.
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:50 AM
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Bring back the cane!
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:17 AM
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Bring back the cane!
But how? They did away with it too long ago there are grandparents out there that never had the cane when they were in school! Can you imagine what would happen if they tried to bring it back!
Your not even allowed to give your kids a smack on the backside anymore
Fuckin do gooders

Bring back the stocks, hanging, and the cat, public flogging for the kiddie fiddlers
That would cut crime
Ah the good old days Dai
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Old 02-03-2016, 01:23 PM
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But how? They did away with it too long ago there are grandparents out there that never had the cane when they were in school! Can you imagine what would happen if they tried to bring it back!
Your not even allowed to give your kids a smack on the backside anymore
Fuckin do gooders

Bring back the stocks, hanging, and the cat, public flogging for the kiddie fiddlers
That would cut crime
Ah the good old days Dai
Unfortunately it doesn't cut crime, it just makes it harder to catch them as they know what they face. People, even children, used to be hung for stealing bread but there was always a good trade for the hangman's noose. Hanging murderers, on the other hand makes sure they don't do it again....

As for the cane at school, I was always in trouble and one teacher came down the corridor and wahcked me with his cane. I asked "What was that for"
He said "Because you are bound to have got away with something"
Didn't stop me, just made me more careful.....
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Old 02-03-2016, 01:56 PM
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I'm so glad I haven't got any kids!
Yes, me too!

I'm sick of applying for jobs that want someone with a degree. I went for an interview recently and answered everything they wanted to know correctly. When I asked the agency why I didn't get the job, the reply was "you were by far the best candidate but you don't have a degree". It looks like I'm stuck doing minimum wage jobs while people who haven't a clue earn the good money just because they have a media studies or other useless subject degree.
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Old 03-03-2016, 05:56 AM
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Yes, me too!

I'm sick of applying for jobs that want someone with a degree. I went for an interview recently and answered everything they wanted to know correctly. When I asked the agency why I didn't get the job, the reply was "you were by far the best candidate but you don't have a degree". It looks like I'm stuck doing minimum wage jobs while people who haven't a clue earn the good money just because they have a media studies or other useless subject degree.
Join the club! Also once you hit 50 you've had it, especially when you've had a heart attack! Also most of the "interviewers" now are at least ten to fifteen years younger than you and will think of you as sort of competitor after their job and will see you as a rival. In truth you will probably have more experience than them and may show them up and cause them to lose face!

Hence I cashed in a couple of private pensions ( they weren't doing much anyway. Just be careful you don't get ripped off by the Agency who flogged them to you. I was!) and decided to "retire".
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Old 03-03-2016, 05:58 AM
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Unfortunately it doesn't cut crime, it just makes it harder to catch them as they know what they face. People, even children, used to be hung for stealing bread but there was always a good trade for the hangman's noose. Hanging murderers, on the other hand makes sure they don't do it again....

As for the cane at school, I was always in trouble and one teacher came down the corridor and wahcked me with his cane. I asked "What was that for"
He said "Because you are bound to have got away with something"
Didn't stop me, just made me more careful.....
you are just a curmudgeonly Old Git anyway, even when you was young!
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Old 03-03-2016, 09:09 AM
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When they come out of university with their degrees what kind of work is available if any?

A fair amount end up doing menial jobs just for spending money while living at home with their parents. It's not surprising that kids live with mum and dad until their late 30s or early 40s.

I have been given recent graduates to take under my wing and bring them on. But my God! What are the universities producing??
One guy springs to mind who worked for me and he allegedly had a BSc in Architectural Technology. I could not believe his ineptitude and inability to follow simple instructions. The partners were equally incredulous about his whole attitude to work and colleagues. The office system was that everyone took turns to make tea. It wasn't a huge office ok. But this guy refused to take his turn because he thought he was above all that. Wtf?
The guy came out of uni with a science degree in building technology and he didn't know one end of a pencil from a putlog.
I'm still trying to work the guy out now years later!
Not the first one either.
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Old 03-03-2016, 09:15 AM
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I'll give you an idea of the employment market problems in one quick example.
My little lady as a machewer stoodent (yeah right lol) passed her science degree in animal welfare and pharmacology. When her parents and I went to her graduation ceremony on 1 day out if the 2 days of graduation ceremonies, there was perhaps a total of 50 science degrees out of many hundreds of BAs.
Scientists and engineers are in big shortage.
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Old 03-03-2016, 09:28 AM
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I was a real muppet at school and fucked around all the time. The school thing bored me to tears so I hang around with all the bad lads and borstal refugees. They were more real than any of the "swots".
I scraped together enough O levels to get to technical college and turned my life around. Didn't help when our mum died when I was 18. I left college with an OND and an HND and some good mates who are still mates.

But I learned I had skills and I developed those skills to a very high level therefore I became successful and enjoyed a quality of life because of the earnings I could obtain. What did I need a degree for? Ran my own companies or worked freelance for most of my life. Freelance was best. Less stress and for little commitment.

I believe everyone has at least one thing they are skilled at. But they need to find those skills inside them and then develop them. However the education system doesn't help find or bring out those skills.
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