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  #1  
Old 09-06-2004, 01:21 AM
Trikerbiker Trikerbiker is offline
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Question Trike Rear Brakes Help Needed

Hi all....

I'm having problems getting rear brakes to work on my trike. It's got a Reliant axle with new Shoes, cylinders and drums. I'm using a clutch master cylinder from a Toyota Starlet.

The problem appears to be with leverage - I simply can't find a way to mount the pedal to give me sufficient leverage to make the damn things work.

I've got a BMW K100 front end from which I've removed one disc and caliper.
Now here's the tricky bit...if I connect a brake pipe from the front brake splitter (which is now blanked off using a bleed nipple) to the rear brakes will this give me equal(ish) braking on all 3 wheels using the hand lever?

I know that the guy who had carried out the rear disc conversion featured in the mag a few months back had linked up his brakes (via a foot pedal I think) and said that he had no problems with balance etc.

Any thoughts???

Thanks in anticipation.

Mick
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Old 09-06-2004, 03:24 AM
odie odie is offline
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Default Disc conversion

I ran a reliant trike with the brakes linked throu a 3 way splitter before and had no probs, front wheel never locked up before the rear,how long is your brake pedal?
Have you tryed lengthening it?
Disc conversion:
I spoke to Pat and her better half Rik (who build trikes for a living) about this conversion at length over the week-end at the unwanted mcc party.
They informed me that some people had tryed to do it and not had much success in making it work, that dont mean that it dont work it just means that some-people might not have followed the instructions to the letter!
There is another way of making the rear brakes better and that is by fitting the wheel cylinders and backing plates from a reliant kitten.
You will need the backing plates as well due to the fact that the kitten wheel cylinders mount differently.
The normal reliant rear braking system uses only one of the rear shoes for the brake and one for the hand brak, the kitten uses a twin operating piston instead of the single operating piston thus increasing the braking efficentsie by 100% (good plug for the mag!)
You will need the backing plate and the wheel cylinders but it is cheaper than trying to do the disc conversion.
Any good reliant dealer should have these in stock and might even have them as second hand (only get the backing plate second hand not wheel cylinders)if not drop me an email as i have a reliant dealer local to me who is exellent and i will give you their details.
Hope this helps
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Old 09-06-2004, 08:59 AM
Trikerbiker Trikerbiker is offline
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Thanx Odie...

I've tried a couple of different brake pedals, one I got made up which is about 7" long, and the original BMW K100 one which is about 10" - still no good!

I might try making up a brake pipe and linking them via the splitter built into the bottom yoke (at least I've got the kit for that and it won't cost anything).

The Kitten idea sounds interesting - I'll have a scout around and see if thre's any Reliant dealers here in Northern Ireland - I recently bought new drums from a motor factors at 65 the pair so a Reliant dealer might be better on pricing?
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Old 09-06-2004, 09:34 AM
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You are joking?
65 they were pulling your pisser mate!
10 down the scrap yard!
Try phoning these guys they are in derby 01332 380092 tell them you need the backing plates for a reliant kitten new or second hand and the wheel cylinders new and see what they say.
They are a reliant dealer i used to use they are called "Robin's motor's"
Hope they can help
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Old 09-06-2004, 09:45 AM
Trikerbiker Trikerbiker is offline
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Yeah I Know! I Know!

My mate bought a pair for his VW Transporter 2.1ltr. based trike a few days later for 35!

Anyhow I've got 'em now, and if the Kitten backplates and cylinders fit straight on it looks like the best route to go - I assume I'll also need different shoes, retaining springs etc.?

Thanx again mate I'll give these guys a bell.

Regards

Mick
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2004, 11:41 AM
titusni titusni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trikerbiker
I might try making up a brake pipe and linking them via the splitter built into the bottom yoke (at least I've got the kit for that and it won't cost anything).

The Kitten idea sounds interesting - I'll have a scout around and see if thre's any Reliant dealers here in Northern Ireland - I recently bought new drums from a motor factors at 65 the pair so a Reliant dealer might be better on pricing?
Good to see another triker from Northern Ireland :-) Have a gander at mine - http://www.oldcolo.com/~bradley/trike/

I've got linked brakes on my V-Max trike but that's via the foot pedal using a balance valve (80/20 ratio I think) linked to the 2 rear discs and one of the front discs. The master cylinder is build into the foot pedal mechanism (off an Escort RS I believe).
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Old 09-06-2004, 02:51 PM
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Hi there Titusni......

Nice trike! You can see mine at http://uk.photos.yahoo.com/apachedrifter
The album is named Apache (which by coincidence is also the name of the trike)
It's a Boss Hog built around a BMW K100. I've had it for about 6 years now, but the rear brakes have always been ****e.

Regards

Mick
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2004, 10:54 PM
Fatboyfat Fatboyfat is offline
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Are you wanting to run all the brakes from the front master cylinder?Never had much success with this,even with remote servos.

Reliant brakes can be funny things at the best of times and the way we used to run them was pretty close to the original spec.We used the original Girling master cylinder and went straight from that to a 4 way split.One from the master cylinder,one to the front,one to the rear and the other was fitted with a hydraulic brake light switch.This worked fine even with a car hub disc set up.

The rear axle set up can be a pain if you change the way the pipes run.If you split the pipe to go into the cylinders it wont always work.Dont know why,it just wont.Best to keep it to the original Reliant set up.

If your parts are all new I dont think that changing any of these is gonna help you.

From what I can see in the photos the rod from the pedal to the master cylinder could be flexing over such a great distance,as it doesn't look very thick.

Has the end that fits into the master cylinder been radiused to seat into the piston?This is another problem that I have seen,the whole thing just jams up.

Your problem though is probably one of leverage.You need to make sure you have enough from the underside of the lever and that it will push the piston home in the master cylinder.

If it was me?I'd fit an original Girling master cylinder nearer to the pedal and start from there.

Good luck.
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Old 10-06-2004, 08:52 AM
Trikerbiker Trikerbiker is offline
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Hi Fatboyfat....

Thnks for your comments. I tried a set up from the front master cylinder last night, but couldn't get any pressure at all (spent a couple of hours bleeding and pumping the fluid - but stll nothing).
The set up I've got now is similar to what you've described. I've done away with that long link rod to the K100 master cylinder as I assumed that was my problem. I've now got a Toyota Starlet clutch master cylinder which appears to be beefy enough for the job fitted directly to the lever. Pipe from this to a 4 way splitter then from there one to each rear brake, and one is fitted with a hydraulic brake light switch. All pipes are 3/16 copper.
The pedal is rock hard, but just doesn't seem to be giving me enough leverage.
Back to the drawing board I suppose.

Regards

Mick
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  #10  
Old 10-06-2004, 09:47 AM
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done a few disc brake rear conversions, using astra/nissan. and golf/granada,mazda calipers.
always link then using an adjutable bias valve.
i always use a 20mm bore master cylinder off whatever...
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  #11  
Old 10-06-2004, 03:49 PM
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Default Just emailed to me

Hi,
Been browsing the forums & came across the thread started by TrikerBiker concerning duff brakes on his trike.
I'm the guy with the green Reliant who sent you the article on disc conversions which you printed a few months ago. As stated at the time, mine works fine -no balance valve, just a standard Girling cylinder with a single Goodrich hose running to a 3 way splitter with a line going forward to the single Superdream front brake & one back to a four way splitter. From that a hose runs to each rear caliper & the fourth junction takes the hydraulic brake light switch.
The calipers are re-con VW Golf mark two, (the same as used on Passats), & the discs are Vauxhall Nova front ones. My pedal is very short as it pivots on the footrest mount so can only be as long as my foot, but still seems to stop the beastie without any major traumas. The rod from the pedal to the cylinder is 1/2" mild steel & about a foot long. Sailed through the MOT again a couple of weeks ago & is in constant use including lots of 70mph motorway work with no probs.
I was at the Poole harbour bike night on Tuesday & will be at the 3Bs' "Only Fools & Bikers" do in Bordon, Hants on the 26th June if anyone wants a closer look at the set up.
Couldn't send this direct to the forum cos I get my internet access through cable T.V so can browse sites but not access them directly. Hope it helps.
Andy Field.
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  #12  
Old 10-06-2004, 08:15 PM
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anyone know if reliant kitten back plates and mini ones are the same ???
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  #13  
Old 10-06-2004, 10:40 PM
Trikerbiker Trikerbiker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%Pat
Hi,
Been browsing the forums & came across the thread started by TrikerBiker concerning duff brakes on his trike.
etc. etc.
Hope it helps.
Andy Field.
Thanx Andy and Pat....

I've just come in from the garage after making up and fitting a new longer pedal - haven't tried it out yet, but it feels like it's working better (I feel I'm getting more pressure on it without straining).

I'll let you know how it works out when I've tried it.

As another option I've also got a pair of rear calipers from a Renault 19 (GTI)? with handbrake levers etc. so if I can't make the drums work I'll have to find someone to make me up backing plates etc. to try these.

Thanks again

Regards

Mick
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  #14  
Old 30-06-2004, 09:41 AM
Trikerbiker Trikerbiker is offline
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I got the trike brakes sorted at last!!
The longer lever I made up works a treat and now locks up the rear end with no effort at all even with the Robin brakes.
I used a gear lever from a CBR 600 Honda to get the bushing (5 from the breakers), cut the lever bit off and welded on a piece of 6mm x 30mm flat bar bent to reach from the pivot point to my foot placement, added a lever peg from M&P 6.99 and drilled a hole in the operating end of the Honda lever (the bit that the original gear operating rod fixed to) as close to the bush as I could get to fit the clevis from the master cylinder operating rod.
Using a formula of dividing the overall lever length by the distance from the centre of the bush to the hole that oprates the rod I've got leverage of about 19:1. I previously had about 4:1 using the old lever and the same method for calculation.

If anyone can understand this drivel please explain it to me!

Now I've got the impossible task of booking an MOT - the DVLA run MOT centres here are on strike and I won't get a date before the end of August!! So unless I do something drastic or illegal I won't have the trike on the road all summer

I'm seriously considering riding over to North Wales (via Holyhead) to get one if anyone knows of a place near to Holyhead that might be able to do it for me.

Regards

Mick
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  #15  
Old 30-06-2004, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titusni
Good to see another triker from Northern Ireland :-) Have a gander at mine - http://www.oldcolo.com/~bradley/trike/

I've got linked brakes on my V-Max trike but that's via the foot pedal using a balance valve (80/20 ratio I think) linked to the 2 rear discs and one of the front discs. The master cylinder is build into the foot pedal mechanism (off an Escort RS I believe).

was the man that built that called Derek? Looks like his work.
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Old 30-06-2004, 11:21 AM
Trikerbiker Trikerbiker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badvoc
was the man that built that called Derek? Looks like his work.
Hey Badvoc are you referring to Derek Winters by any chance?

Regards

Mick
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  #17  
Old 01-07-2004, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trikerbiker
Hey Badvoc are you referring to Derek Winters by any chance?

Regards

Mick
yep that's the one
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  #18  
Old 02-07-2004, 01:36 AM
Alik Windrush Alik Windrush is offline
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How your brakes work is more to do with the bore of the master cylinder. Seems like you're sorted but you can still ask if you want
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Old 02-07-2004, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alik Windrush
How your brakes work is more to do with the bore of the master cylinder. Seems like you're sorted but you can still ask if you want
Thanks for the offer Alik, however, as you say I'm now sorted. I found info on braking ratios, master cyliners etc. on a hot-rod site that helped me to work out what I needed to do.

Now what I need is an MOT centre in Anglesey that I can go to to get the trike tested so I can use it this summer.

Regards

Mick
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:52 PM
brian moores brian moores is offline
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can anybody tell me where i can get backing plates for a reliant kitten
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:25 PM
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worth asking on the manky monkey forum, as many people convert reliant axles to disc brake, myself included, but unfortunately I have binned all my backing plates.
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2012, 05:53 PM
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I think that form is down, has been for a while now
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:11 PM
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You'll find those brakes used on many vehicles of the 1960s 70s and 80s.

Drums cylinders etc all identical, dunno if the back plates are all the same but worth checking.
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  #24  
Old 17-12-2012, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trikerbiker View Post
Hi all....

I'm having problems getting rear brakes to work on my trike. It's got a Reliant axle with new Shoes, cylinders and drums. I'm using a clutch master cylinder from a Toyota Starlet.

The problem appears to be with leverage - I simply can't find a way to mount the pedal to give me sufficient leverage to make the damn things work.

I've got a BMW K100 front end from which I've removed one disc and caliper.
Now here's the tricky bit...if I connect a brake pipe from the front brake splitter (which is now blanked off using a bleed nipple) to the rear brakes will this give me equal(ish) braking on all 3 wheels using the hand lever?

I know that the guy who had carried out the rear disc conversion featured in the mag a few months back had linked up his brakes (via a foot pedal I think) and said that he had no problems with balance etc.

Any thoughts???

Thanks in anticipation.
the easy way to get rear brakes to work on reliant axles is to use a motorcycle rear master cylinch to the amusement of the mot tester der this increases the pressure because of the smaller bore i have done two conversions and both work well in fact i can lock the rear wheels on my cx500 trike much to the amusement of the mot tester john j
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