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Old 16-09-2012, 06:04 PM
1budgie1 1budgie1 is offline
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Default trike sva

bought a v8 based trike from wales 3 yrs ago . i changed axle rear framework fuel tank etc to give it a better look and improved handling so spent a fair amount of time and money..problem is its registered as a historic vehicle and what with changes coming in re scrapping vehicles not properly registered i think its time to re register the beast. never having registered a vehicle before and not wanting to make any mistakes leading to further problems i wondered if anyone out there can offer advice on best way to tackle this...will i be able to ride to test centre as is motd or may that drop mot tester in the proverbial? would really appreciate any advice
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Old 16-09-2012, 06:29 PM
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You need to download form MSVA1 from the Direct.gov website. That is the application form.

You can ride it to the test centre as long as it's insured, don't even need the MOT.


Has it got the chassis number of the historic vehicle on it?
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Old 25-09-2012, 09:47 AM
1budgie1 1budgie1 is offline
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Default trike registration

cheers for your advice..not too sure about the frame no. i would imagine the number was from the historic vehicle to enable it to remain historic..why you ask? steve
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Old 25-09-2012, 10:22 AM
devon-tony devon-tony is offline
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when you say historic vehicle, what exactly is written on the V5c under, make model wheelplan etc

MSVA isnt difficult, so dont worry about it

the manual is all online free of charge

just print off the relevant pages and work your way through it

only thing that you probably cant be sure of is sound levels as not easy to test, but just make it quiet as possible, just for that one day of its life
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Old 25-09-2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1budgie1 View Post
cheers for your advice..not too sure about the frame no. i would imagine the number was from the historic vehicle to enable it to remain historic..why you ask? steve
I imagine the identity of the historic vehicle has been "cloned" and given to the trike, that's illegal. If the VIN or chassis number of the old vehicle has been stamped into the trike it will need to be got rid of and a new one created. You wont be able to register it as a new vehicle with the old number because DVLAs records will still show that number as registered already.

You can make up your own number as long as it has not been used already or DVLA will give you one (insert your own carry on joke here).
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:45 PM
1budgie1 1budgie1 is offline
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Default trike registration

wheelplan says 3 - wheel body type says tricycle taxation class says historic vehicle and make says bsa...will i have problems when i turn up for test ? and excuse me if im a little slow on the uptake with trying to get my head around all this but obviously its already registered as a trike ..will i have problems trying to re register it.if so how do i get around this? sound like a proper pleb dont i?
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:54 PM
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does it look like this??

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=en...93&tx=99&ty=92

as I suspect thats what the V5 would have been for LOL
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:36 PM
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Does the V8 go in the shopping basket ?
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:27 PM
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An interesting photo - although BSA made them they were sold under the Ariel name with Ariel badges, same as they'd done 20 years before with the shaft drive Sunbeams.
I've never seen a factory BSA version (maybe they didn't want it get to confused with the Rocket 3)
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:16 PM
1budgie1 1budgie1 is offline
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Default registering trike

could well be.......the starter motor! i know you mentioned a new frame no. needed . would that be something the dvla will supply. also as i asked will there be a problem in re registering it as is already a trike on the log book.i know i must seem a div but would serve me well to be properly prepared..
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:25 PM
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Send this fella a p,m, if he dosent no one will

MSVA Tech

hope this helps Dai
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:35 PM
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Budgie, if we are going to help you, you will have to answer the questions I asked earlier.

However what I suspect is:

Your trike is NOT registered at all.

A BSA is registered.

Someone has "cloned" the registration and that clone is your trike.

If someone nicked your car or bike and ground off the chassis number and changed the number plates, you would be upset and the cops would call it a ringer.

Why would they think any different of your trike?
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Old 03-10-2012, 08:47 AM
devon-tony devon-tony is offline
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the simple answer is to not tell them its registered, this could lead to a whole world of pain with them wanting to know questions that you maybe cant answer

for a V8 rover trike to have historic tax and be regged as a BSA, something is wrong LOL, even you appreciate that or else you wouldnt have joined here and asked

SO

grind off/remove the numbers on the frame, apply to DVLA for a VIN number.

just write a nice letter explaining that you have an amateur built trike and wish to get it MSVA tested, therefore you need them to issue you with a VIN number so it can be tested, maybe add a couple of photos to the letter

my local VRO is Exeter and I get them back damn quick in the post, last one had a lovely handwritten note from the young girl in the office to apologise for the delay due to staff sickness, but 3 days for a VIN, hell I wont complain LOL

stamp that into your frame, and present it for MSVA as a new build, just like anyone else would do

simples
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:01 AM
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The reasons given in this thread are why i would recomend no one buy a car based trike thats not on a Q plate

If it's on a Q it's been done properly anything else it's more than likely on a reliant log book and is dodgy unless it's running a reliant chassis motor and axel
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:24 AM
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yeah try telling joe bloggs in the street that

my trikes Q plate and the number of people that say, oh its not regged properly, must have been stolen, oh you cant insure it etc etc
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:23 AM
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Q plates are slowly becoming sought after now I'm finding, msva seems to be the way forwards for a lot of builders now rather than registering them to the old log book and insurance companies are warming to them
It's all straightforward bullshit
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:32 AM
devon-tony devon-tony is offline
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ha ha at least I know Im not alone in the big world, I have been buying any cheap frames etc with Q plates for a while

VOSA etc are certainly aware of the issues, I got pulled on way home from a local rally, he walked round the back, saw the Q plate, then said, sorry mate, your not the one Im waiting for!

either side of my trike at that rally were big V8 car engined trikes, I know for certain that one of them was regged as a reliant van LOL and tax exempt, hope he went south instead of north on the way home
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1budgie1 View Post
wheelplan says 3 - wheel body type says tricycle taxation class says historic vehicle and make says bsa...will i have problems when i turn up for test ? and excuse me if im a little slow on the uptake with trying to get my head around all this but obviously its already registered as a trike ..will i have problems trying to re register it.if so how do i get around this? sound like a proper pleb dont i?


There are a lot of people jumping to conclusions on this thread without thinking that the system for re registration was vastly different in each area before MSVA came in 2003. Many people had trikes inspected officially and didn't bother changing the make or other details. DVLA examiners could be very lax before VOSA took over the examinations

As well as wheelplan, taxation class and make, there are 2 other points on the V5c that need examining.

What is the engine size listed?
At the bottom of the Vehicle details page, there should be a remark such as 'modified vehicle' or 'this vehicle is built from parts, some of which may be new' There are many different ways of wording this but they all mean the same thing.


If these 5 points are correct, then all is legal.

Check the log book again and if there are any modification remarks on it,Ignore any advice people have given you on MSVA because the trike is legally registered . If there are no remarks, go the MSVA route

Last edited by happybiker; 10-10-2012 at 09:14 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
You need to download form MSVA1 from the Direct.gov website. That is the application form.

You can ride it to the test centre as long as it's insured, don't even need the MOT.


Has it got the chassis number of the historic vehicle on it?
WHY?

Until one knows what is written in the V5c, you can't determine whether the trike is legal or not. Just jumping in with out knowing the facts is scaremongering
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happybiker View Post
WHY?

Until one knows what is written in the V5c, you can't determine whether the trike is legal or not. Just jumping in with out knowing the facts is scaremongering
The question asked was how to register it properly.

So I answered the question. I also asked some relevant questions to which we haven't been given the answers. With those answers I can give more specific advice.

As I used to be an MSVA examiner and the deputy MSVA policy engineer for a period I might be considered qualified to do so. Yet I try to be cautious as some information can go out of date.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
The question asked was how to register it properly.

So I answered the question. I also asked some relevant questions to which we haven't been given the answers. With those answers I can give more specific advice.

As I used to be an MSVA examiner and the deputy MSVA policy engineer for a period I might be considered qualified to do so. Yet I try to be cautious as some information can go out of date.

If someone asked you the right way to jump off a cliff, would you not query their reasons for doing so?

From the OP's post, it is quite obvious that he's heard some scare stories and is reacting to them. There might not even be a problem. Until the evidence is gathered, the only answer that should be given is that one can't advise until facts are known. There are plenty of old trikes running on historic tax and original numbers from before DVLA and VOSA got onto their little power track.

As you 'used to be an MSVA examiner and the deputy MSVA policy engineer for a period I might be considered qualified to do so.'

You should also know that decisions and advice should be logical , relevent and truthfull. Not knee jerk reactions without thought.

It is possible he might have to re register it, but it is also possibe he doesn't. Currently, we are at stalemate until more information is known

Last edited by happybiker; 10-10-2012 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:51 PM
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Let me give you a history lesson. When the EU brought in type approval for bikes trikes and quads, it meant that only vehicles with a certificate of conformity could be registered in the EU. That would have ended grey imports self builds and major modifications. MAG bless them fought against the legislation (I was and am a member).
VOSA went on a “power kick” and decided to set up a parallel scheme to allow these vehicles a way round the legislation. The man picked to develop the scheme was and is a biker and he got together a team of mostly bikers to produce a test manual. We could not just write what we wanted because it had to be passed by the UK parliament and the EU. But we managed to produce a very light touch test. Many people are not happy with the test but it allowed a legal way of getting vehicles on the road. A hell of a lot of politics was involved but I am convinced that nothing more could have been achieved.
Unfortunately this team has been broken up just as the EU has decided to tighten the regulations.
MAG are not happy at the way the EU regs are moving and I am concerned that revisions to the MSVA to accommodate the changes may not be as “user friendly” in future.

I used to get paid to argue this shit but I am quite happy to give advice to my fellow bikers on here for free. Nobody is forced to accept that advice, and they can always turn to the “Man down the pub” if they prefer, because he always knows more than the professionals.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:31 PM
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I know a little about VOSA Harry. You ommitted to say that VOSA was only formed in 2003, well after much of the 'fighting' over type approval was over. Your history lesson is a tad biased

The MSVA work was started by the old vehicle inspectorate and completed by VOSA. This was because Parliament ordered it, not because VOSA , out of the goodnes of their hearts wanted it. Yes Vosa had the shit to deal with, it was their job and they were tasked with it.

Prior to 2003, changes to vehicles already registered was the responsibility of the DVLC (not as now DVLA) and the 'inspectors' were mostly untrained clerks who wanted to wangle time out of the office. These inspections were sometimes non-existant or haphazard and many altered vehicles retained their original number and make. Technical quality didn't matter, only the serial numbers did to these pen pushers delegated with the task. I registered a trike in January 2003 and it wasn't even inspected, the V5 was simply posted to me with all alterations noted. Some really poorly built trikes ended up on the road because of this.

Only with the formation of VOSA and the work delegated to them, was any consistancy brought to the system.

For any trike registered before 2003, it was quite possible (and very usual) to retain all original details (apart from body type).

The only way to tell sometimes is the notes at the bottom of the V5 on the vehicle details page.

Last edited by happybiker; 10-10-2012 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:38 PM
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I remember a few years ago when DVLA were having some problems you would send off a colour change to silver and you got back your new log book the colour would say Black

At around the same time if you tried to register a trike the log book would come back saying three wheeled mechanical digger!

Wonder how many of those are still on the road now everything's computerised?
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
The question asked was how to register it prope

I also asked some relevant questions to which we haven't been given the answers. With those answers I can give more specific advise
I notice that none of your posts have been edited but I can't find these questions you asked, could you point them out to me, then I will apologise. your posts, exactly what were these questions? All I can find you asked was about the historic vehicle number. And then you proceeded to tell him you thought he had a ringer.


Devon-Tony asked the only sensible and relevent questions. You certainly didn't.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:09 PM
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I was trying to help Budgie if you don't like it, tough shit.

I've got better things to do than argue with you.
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Old 15-10-2012, 09:45 PM
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Back in the 70's and 80's if you built a phoenix trike you sent off the logbook to DVLC and it came back as VW Beetle Tricycle. Surely if it was legal then and sanctioned by DVLC it is still legal now?

My mate has a tax excempt trike just like this now, its been on the road over 30 years and was changed to trike before Q plates came out, which if I remember right was 1982 when the new registrations with the letter at the beginning of the reg came out. Prior to that any reregisterd vehicle got what ever registration number was out at the time.
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Old 15-10-2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
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Back in the 70's and 80's if you built a phoenix trike you sent off the logbook to DVLC and it came back as VW Beetle Tricycle. Surely if it was legal then and sanctioned by DVLC it is still legal now?

My mate has a tax excempt trike just like this now, its been on the road over 30 years and was changed to trike before Q plates came out, which if I remember right was 1982 when the new registrations with the letter at the beginning of the reg came out. Prior to that any reregisterd vehicle got what ever registration number was out at the time.
Yup that would still be a legal vehicle, because it is still mainly VW. It's been harder than expected to get info on this one, but if it's registered as a BSA I suspect it may be a problem.
if you modify a vehicle you have to keep a reasonable amount of it unmodified in order to keep it's original identity.

The DVLA leaflet INF26 explains the rules.
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Old 15-10-2012, 10:50 PM
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I remember a V8 trike that was for sale in west wales about 15 or so years ago that was registered as a 3500cc BSA tricycle historic vehicle when i saw it it was on a trailer and didn't look safe to take off the trailer let alone ride the thing [scaffold pole chassis some joins held together with scaffold clamps etc]

Just hope if it's the same one it's been totally rebuilt by someone that knows what they were doing
If it's the same one and has the same numbers on it i would think it would be legal ish but if it has been off the road from the days before sorn the plate will probably have been given to something else if it's on sorn now you should be ok

Remember i'm talking about a trike that was first registered as a trike over 20years ago
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