100% Biker & Trike Magazine Forums

Go Back   100% Biker & Trike Magazine Forums > 100% Biker > The Workshop

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 25-01-2005, 04:07 PM
MSVA Tech's Avatar
MSVA Tech MSVA Tech is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tootling round Turktown
Posts: 353
Default Wot ave I let meself in for?

Hi all,

Just had a chat with the Ed who's convinced me to make myself available (oh er) on the forum.

I'm Chris the MSVA Tech bod at VOSA I cant promise to check out the forum every day but if you do have any MSVA tech questions I'll do my best to answer quickly. If you're desperate my number is in Issue 60.

Cheers now
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 25-01-2005, 04:12 PM
100%Pat's Avatar
100%Pat 100%Pat is offline
Talk, Type, Breath, Talk, Type, Breath....
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hiding in the cupboard under the stairs
Posts: 4,657
Default

Welcome Chris, thanks for making the effort to do this for us, I'm sure everyone will appreciate it.
So anyone with trike MSVA questions you can ask them here.

Please DO NOT waste Chris's time with asking stuff you would know if you werent too tight to buy the manual, please only use this for GENUINE queries!
__________________
Oh, I love my Rosie child
You got the way to make me happy
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 25-01-2005, 04:21 PM
Yoda's Avatar
Yoda Yoda is offline
Talk, Type, Breath, Talk, Type, Breath....
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 8,286
Send a message via MSN to Yoda
Default First MSVA Thread

Okay here goes

what adaptions are considered necessary for a trike to be exempt from the MSVA under the disability option
my new trike will have all hand controls and wheelchair rack (i am disabled by the way..its not a 'get out of jail free' question )
also do you know how you apply for exemption

Yoda

ps as it aint going through MSVA does this mean i can have a giant spike sticking out the front (for leaf collecting purposes of course)
__________________
www.bikerlifestyle.co.uk

yoda yr gwefan

Look At My Goodies
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 25-01-2005, 05:31 PM
Mad Dog's Avatar
Mad Dog Mad Dog is offline
Type like a Twat Me...
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sarf East
Posts: 961
Default

Welcome Chris,

you are sure gonna have yer work cut out.

Take a look around some of the tech posts already here.
__________________
Renegade Events etc
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 25-01-2005, 05:47 PM
Peirre's Avatar
Peirre Peirre is offline
Talk, Type, Breath, Talk, Type, Breath....
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Madam trixy`s house of ill-repute somewhere on the outskirts of doncaster
Posts: 3,422
Default

The MSVA manual
got any info on it, availability, where to get, price, ISBN number etc.................
__________________
USA tour 2018?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25-01-2005, 11:38 PM
titusni titusni is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 243
Default New MSVA changes/revisions

Hi Chris

I had a trike MSVA'ed here in Northern Ireland last January (was the 1st time trike MSVA had been done here). The trike failed on a few minor points - one of which was the absence of hazard lights.

The thing is the triker builder's MSVA manual did not have this requirement in it. He got his manual in October, the hazard requirement was added in November and triker builder was only getting manual revisions at 3 month intervals - so he showed up with his copy of the book (no hazard info in it) and was pointed to the examiner's manual (new copy with the hazard bit in it).

Why doesn't the MSVA work like the house building regs do - changes are announced sufficiently in advance of them coming into force so that people don't turn up and fail due to regs they knew nothing about?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 26-01-2005, 03:57 AM
Sir Ewok's Avatar
Sir Ewok Sir Ewok is offline
Talk, Type, Breath, Talk, Type, Breath....
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wherever I damn well Please
Posts: 7,691
Default

Hi m8 and welcome to the madhouse. I have a trike, registered as a classic vehicle, will hazards etc be a requirement for MOT purposes (I know it's not an MSVA question, but the rule requiring them stems from there) as somee peeps have had probs.

Can't see a 1905 Darraq with acetalyne lights being retro fitted with emergency flashers, can you?
__________________
Been riding for 40 years and my arse is really sore
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26-01-2005, 10:36 AM
MSVA Tech's Avatar
MSVA Tech MSVA Tech is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tootling round Turktown
Posts: 353
Default Phew!

Hi all,

Ok from the top

Pat - thanks I'll do my best

Yoda - Hi, it's the person that gains the exemption, there are no specific tech requirements. What you have with the controls will qualify if your disability is as defined in section 1 of the Disability Discrimination Act. To gain exemption you make a declaration to the DVLA when applying for first licence and registration (form V55). They may want to see the trike. Best advice I can give is to suplly them with as much info about you and the trike as poss. Good luck with it. Just dont ride near me with the pike nut on steroids!

Mad Dog - Cheers mate, I reckon I'll learn just as much as wot I pass on if not more!

Pierre - To get your hands on a manual call our National Enquiry no 0870 6060440 for card sales or send cheque /PO to VOSA, PO Box 12, Swansea, SA1 1BP. Always tell them you want a MOTORCYCLE SVA manual or you might get the car one which costs 7 more. MSVA manual is currently 30 inc p+p, ok sale pitch over. It might be worth hangin on a bit as the first update is having it's final proof read at the mo so should be published soon if TSO are quick off the mark. If you already have a manual send off that bit at the front so that you get notifed when the update is available.

Titusni - The NI scheme is run by DVTA for DOENI, they have run aparallel scheme to ours since startup and since Jan 05 have their own legislation. Hazards for trikes/quads have always been a requirement since the scheme began. Pre scheme some draft versions of the manual were put on the net so that people could comment on the tech requirements for the DfT consultation, this got us the width increase from 1300 to 1700 before 2 headlamps required. One official manual was published these were removed from the net. Bike trike requirements (as opposed to carcyclea) are in Annex 5 of section 6.

Sir Ewok - What ho i've ordered meself an MoT manual so that I'll be in a better position for these kind of enquiries. Vehicles first registered before 01 April 1986 are exempt hazard warning requirements so you should be ok. It would be a real bugger try to blow out and relight four acetylene lamps in sequence.

Thats it folks catch you all again soon

chris
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26-01-2005, 07:26 PM
minxy minxy is offline
Talk, Type, Breath, Talk, Type, Breath....
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,364
Default Thumbs Up

Excellent idea Pat.

Hope you have as much fun as folk trying to catch you out Chris Brave man lol ....

A great asset to the tech forum.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27-01-2005, 11:17 AM
100%Pat's Avatar
100%Pat 100%Pat is offline
Talk, Type, Breath, Talk, Type, Breath....
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hiding in the cupboard under the stairs
Posts: 4,657
Default Minxy

I cant really take the credit for this, Chris rang in about something and then I pressganged him.....
__________________
Oh, I love my Rosie child
You got the way to make me happy
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 28-01-2005, 03:32 PM
titusni titusni is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 243
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSVA Tech
Titusni - The NI scheme is run by DVTA for DOENI, they have run aparallel scheme to ours since startup and since Jan 05 have their own legislation. Hazards for trikes/quads have always been a requirement since the scheme began. Pre scheme some draft versions of the manual were put on the net so that people could comment on the tech requirements for the DfT consultation, this got us the width increase from 1300 to 1700 before 2 headlamps required. One official manual was published these were removed from the net. Bike trike requirements (as opposed to carcyclea) are in Annex 5 of section 6.
This was in January 2004. My trike builder had obtained a manual direct from VOSA (and paid the fee for it) in October 2003 and it didn't have the hazard requirement in it - the DVTA guys had it in their manual (they got in Dec 2003 I think) so they ended up photocopying the page(s) for him to help get him ready for the retest. So either VOS sold him a draft or there must have been more than one version published...

Ah well.................trike's been MSVAed a year now (though it did take them about 4 hours to test it originally). There seem to be some "variation" in how testers apply/interepret the rules - my handbrake only operates on the rear LHS wheel although some people on here reckon it should operate on both rear wheels - didn't stop it passing MSVA.

There's pictures at "http://www.oldcolo.com/~bradley/trike/" if you're interested in seeing a lovely shaft driven, bike-engined, IRS setup
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 28-01-2005, 03:51 PM
Gypsy's Avatar
Gypsy Gypsy is offline
Talk, Type, Breath, Talk, Type, Breath....
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: in the summer sunshine
Posts: 2,499
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by titusni
This was in January 2004. My trike builder had obtained a manual direct from VOSA (and paid the fee for it) in October 2003 and it didn't have the hazard requirement in it - the DVTA guys had it in their manual (they got in Dec 2003 I think) so they ended up photocopying the page(s) for him to help get him ready for the retest. So either VOS sold him a draft or there must have been more than one version published...

Ah well.................trike's been MSVAed a year now (though it did take them about 4 hours to test it originally). There seem to be some "variation" in how testers apply/interepret the rules - my handbrake only operates on the rear LHS wheel although some people on here reckon it should operate on both rear wheels - didn't stop it passing MSVA.

There's pictures at "http://www.oldcolo.com/~bradley/trike/" if you're interested in seeing a lovely shaft driven, bike-engined, IRS setup
yeah , me likes that trike
__________________
aztec bikes, parts and spares
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22-05-2005, 09:34 PM
manky monkey's Avatar
manky monkey manky monkey is offline
Billy No Mates (only virtual ones!)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Basingstoke, Hants.
Posts: 1,177
Default

Probably been asked before, but do I need rear mudguards on a small Reliant engined trike? Have asked in the general forum but need clarification. Not MSVA, just MOT related. Seem to be loads of trikes running without them. Will I get pulled over if I try the same? Are they an MOT requirement?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 24-05-2005, 07:00 AM
MSVA Tech's Avatar
MSVA Tech MSVA Tech is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tootling round Turktown
Posts: 353
Default

Hi

Mudguards are a requirement under construction and use regs (reg 63) which requires every vehicle to be equipped with wings or any other similar fittings to catch, so far as is practicable, mud or water thrown up by the rotation of it's wheels or tracks.

I can't see a specific reference to mudguards in the MoT manual. I guess it depends on what your local police are like.

Cheers

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 24-05-2005, 11:19 AM
manky monkey's Avatar
manky monkey manky monkey is offline
Billy No Mates (only virtual ones!)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Basingstoke, Hants.
Posts: 1,177
Default

Mmm, O.k. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 25-05-2005, 11:00 PM
TektroG's Avatar
TektroG TektroG is offline
Type like a Twat Me...
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toulouse, France
Posts: 777
Default

Cheers for the response. I will have a chat with me m8 who is fabricating the item and check the design conforms to this.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 26-05-2005, 05:35 PM
arachnid arachnid is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Warrington,Cheshire
Posts: 38
Default

Hi Chris, not realy a msva thing this! just wounderd if you or any one can give me some advice here. i am building a relient trike(my first build) and wanna keep it light.the licenceing thing says that a car licence is needed for eny thing over 410kg but nothing is said about useing a car licence under this weight? what i need to know is can i ride a trike under 410kg on a car licence? help . thanks
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-07-2005, 09:03 AM
ninjagal600's Avatar
ninjagal600 ninjagal600 is offline
Billy No Mates (only virtual ones!)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bristolian here...living in shrewsbury
Posts: 1,094
Send a message via MSN to ninjagal600
Default Trike

Last friday i took my trike for a mot, it failed ...not too bad just front tyre.....but the mot bloke..said that he could also not pass it because it didnt have springs?shockers..i told him it was a hardtail but he was quite adamant that it needed to have springs fitted and then he would pass it....its aleways been hardtail.....how do i stand?
I going back tomorrow...
cheers
__________________
Anyone for a cuppa
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-07-2005, 09:36 AM
Mad Dog's Avatar
Mad Dog Mad Dog is offline
Type like a Twat Me...
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sarf East
Posts: 961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjagal600
Last friday i took my trike for a mot, it failed ...not too bad just front tyre.....but the mot bloke..said that he could also not pass it because it didnt have springs?shockers..i told him it was a hardtail but he was quite adamant that it needed to have springs fitted and then he would pass it....its aleways been hardtail.....how do i stand?
I going back tomorrow...
cheers
Go to another MOT station, it don't need springs on rear.

or go back and ask him to get the MOT testers manual out (each station will also have it on CD) and ask him to point out where in the manual it is required to have rear suspension.
__________________
Renegade Events etc
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-07-2005, 09:38 AM
Mad Dog's Avatar
Mad Dog Mad Dog is offline
Type like a Twat Me...
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sarf East
Posts: 961
Default

By the way,

if your front tyre is so bad it fails an MOT, then you cannot be caring for/maintaining your vehicle very well.
__________________
Renegade Events etc
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-07-2005, 09:50 AM
ninjagal600's Avatar
ninjagal600 ninjagal600 is offline
Billy No Mates (only virtual ones!)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bristolian here...living in shrewsbury
Posts: 1,094
Send a message via MSN to ninjagal600
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Dog
By the way,

if your front tyre is so bad it fails an MOT, then you cannot be caring for/maintaining your vehicle very well.

Just got the trike, didnt realise at the time that the tyre was as he says wobbly/lumpy...i do look after my bike and trike the best i can, tyre wasnt bold he said it was out of shape but i think he was just being picky(doesnt seem to like women).... as i took the trike to our local tyre fitters and they could see noting wrong with it (they fit tyres for police vehicles)....

Still thanks for the help
__________________
Anyone for a cuppa
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-07-2005, 10:00 AM
Mad Dog's Avatar
Mad Dog Mad Dog is offline
Type like a Twat Me...
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sarf East
Posts: 961
Default

Sounds like you're getting feckked without the pleasure.

If replacing the front tyre - then a "square profile" sidecar tyre will be the best to fit (provided the dia/rim size is suitable - coz they don't fit all sizes)

Makes a big difference to the handling and drivability.
__________________
Renegade Events etc
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 29-09-2005, 10:17 PM
Defrog Defrog is offline
Chat Virgin
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1
Default

Hi All

Could you tell me what the MSVA regs are for fuel tanks and filler caps on Enduro bikes and trikes.

Many Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-10-2005, 02:04 PM
MSVA Tech's Avatar
MSVA Tech MSVA Tech is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tootling round Turktown
Posts: 353
Default

The rear edge of the filler cap is checked that it does not protrude above the upper surface of the fuel tank more than 15mm and is smooth or perceptibly spherical.

If it does protrude more than 15mm it must be fitted with a protective device.
This is for fuel tanks fitted in front of the rider.

Filler caps are also checked for security and a positive seal when they are closed.


Fuel tanks and other fuel system components are checked for leaks, security, fouling by moving parts of the vehicle, proximity to heat sources, not subject to a corosive environment and suitability, by design, to adequately carry out the function for which they are fitted.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-10-2005, 08:32 AM
Chimp's Avatar
Chimp Chimp is offline
Chat Slapper
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ashford,Kent
Posts: 72
Default seat belts

Hi Chris,
is it o.k to use a 3 point harness as a seat belt for the rear seat of my trike?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-10-2005, 07:45 AM
MSVA Tech's Avatar
MSVA Tech MSVA Tech is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tootling round Turktown
Posts: 353
Default

Hi Chimp,

The minimum requirements for forward facing seats; that aren't, sit astride, saddle type seats on the trikes longitudinal centre line; are 2 anchorage points and two point lap belts.

You can of course improve on this by fitting 3 point belts or harnesses.

The anchorage points and surrounding structure need to be of adequate strength to withstand the load likely to be imposed in the event of a frontal impact. If the anchorage points are on the seat then the seat mountings will also be considered.

The belt needs to be "E", "e", "DOT", or "BS" marked OR have equivalent characteristics.

The effective upper anchorage point must be at least 140mm out from the seat centre line and at least 450mm above what is known as the reference point. The reference point is the highest front point of a rectangle 136mm x 53mm high resting on the seat base and touching the backrest.

Cant upload the picture it's too big if you pm your email address to me I'll send it on.

Hope this hasn't caused too much confusion.

Cheers

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 22-10-2005, 01:33 AM
madtriker madtriker is offline
Chat Slut
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 123
Default trike mudguards?

I've heard that according to MOT testing a vehicle requires mudguards when it's wheels are protruding from it's bodywork, so if a trikes got no bodywork does that mean it doesn't need mudguards? thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 31-10-2005, 04:01 PM
titusni titusni is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 243
Default MOT/MSVA and a rear tyre on a front wheel?

I'm getting to the end of life with the Dunlop Sportsmax II D204F 120/70ZR17 on the front of my trike (GSX-R1100 front wheel).

Whilst looking around for see what tyre options I might have I found an Internet chatroom for Goldwing trike owners in USA where they were recommending people to fit Michelin Pilot Activ REAR tyres or Bridgestone BT45. They mentioned running the rear tyres with the direction marking going the "wrong" way.

They even seem to have some input on this from Michelin themselves:

"Michelin recommends running their tire "backwards", that is the tire is mounted on the front wheel rim so that it spins the opposite direction it would have if it were mounted on the rear of a motorcycle. I don't think Bridgestone will even talk to anyone running one of their tires on a trike."

Anyone tried this? Is this likely to pass MOT?

Just trying to see what my tyre options are maybe improve handling (17" wheel so no square profile tyres to choose from).
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 31-10-2005, 04:40 PM
MSVA Tech's Avatar
MSVA Tech MSVA Tech is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tootling round Turktown
Posts: 353
Default

As long as the rear tyres are radial you can fit cross ply, bias or radial to the front. There is a check for correct fitting with the fail saying " a tyre not fitted in compliance with the manufacturers sidewall instruction, eg an asymmetric tyre with a sidewall marked 'outer' fitted with the marking to the inner side of the wheel.

It doesn't actually mention direction of rotation or tyres designated front or rear fitment only but could still mean a fail.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 31-10-2005, 05:34 PM
titusni titusni is offline
Chatter Box
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 243
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSVA Tech
As long as the rear tyres are radial you can fit cross ply, bias or radial to the front.
Rears are Mastercraft Avenger G/T 265/15R50 which are radial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSVA Tech
There is a check for correct fitting with the fail saying " a tyre not fitted in compliance with the manufacturers sidewall instruction, eg an asymmetric tyre with a sidewall marked 'outer' fitted with the marking to the inner side of the wheel.

It doesn't actually mention direction of rotation or tyres designated front or rear fitment only but could still mean a fail.
Sounds like you're not sure - how would I find out for definate?

Last edited by titusni; 01-11-2005 at 10:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.