100% Biker & Trike Magazine Forums

100% Biker & Trike Magazine Forums (http://www.100-biker.com/forums/index.php)
-   Biker Chat (http://www.100-biker.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   advice from the pro/good welders needed (http://www.100-biker.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44009)

devon-tony 07-03-2011 03:39 PM

advice from the pro/good welders needed
 
ok so Im at the stage of in the next week pulling the trike down to be fully welded up

the guy that was going to do it has basically said that I drop it off, and could be 6 months maybe! LOL

so I just spoke with a local place, coded and all that ol stuff, hes telling me that Ive built the frame wrong as theres no gaps!

the joins in the tube are snug, ends were fishmouthed and it was all designed to fit together nicely

he mumbled that it wasnt a problem, go in with cutting discs and grinding discs, cut this about grind that about, needs a 2mm rod, should have left a 2mm gap between the joins

he didnt see the problem with cutting the tubes apart, grinding the ends about and putting it back together :(

have I dropped a major bollock here?

ok so this isnt all of it obviously but this is how pretty much all the joins are, milled or filed to as near as damnit perfect fit
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...n/6-10-103.jpg

if Im going to be told that this cant be welded up properly, then Im going to scrap the whole lot and just give up LOL


looks like I might get away with having it TIG welded, bloody pissed off that I didnt realise you have to make these things with goping great gaps, goes against my basic instinct of building things

never mind.

PeteHaddock 07-03-2011 05:28 PM

I wont even pretend to be a good welder but could you not just chamfer the edges to get good penetration, the whole gap business is new to me!

mick2 08-03-2011 12:11 AM

gap thing is new to me, the weld should penetrate both parts to be welded regardless of a chamfer even i would have thought?

dracken1 08-03-2011 06:28 AM

what is the wall thickness of the tubing?

devon-tony 08-03-2011 08:43 AM

2.5mm or 3mm off the top of my head

sounds like it can be TIG welded, hopefully get it pulled apart next week, and take it to someone else, let them see it and see what they say.

otherwise it will be one just another one of them unfinished trike projects on ebay LOL let someone else worry about it.

was so looking forward to finishing this trike, taken every penny I have and lots that I dont have, now I really just dont care, think I will just stick to buying bikes, if it hasnt been built properly, hey I wont actually know so wont be bothered LOL

Steve D 08-03-2011 09:13 AM

What about brazing instead?

dixie 08-03-2011 09:21 AM

Now i aint no pro welder, but the way i see this is that you aint got a problem at all. Its true that a good pre weld joint should be chamfered to ease good penetration but i dont see this as critical..A good welder will know how to control a "weld pool" to create the desired weld strength...i have no doubt whatsoever that my buddy Simon (Welder Supreme and Framebuilder of many top customs) could weld up your Trike...if you PM me i will fwd his contact details.

mick2 08-03-2011 12:21 PM

shouldnt need to be even tigged, a good welder should be able to mig it.
ive watched the lads at my work doing repairs on tornado rb199 jet turbines and they dont have any gaps at all, everything is a snug fit.
sounds like yer welder is yanking yer chain m8

Grav 08-03-2011 07:45 PM

My welding skills have been likened to a flock of pigeons shitting on a shed roof...... :D

I can tack things up but when it comes to finishing stuff off I too would have to ask someone more skilled than me to do it.

hacky 08-03-2011 08:13 PM

never heard about the gap thing before???
after 15 years mig welding in prototype automotive stuff ive never been told i need a gap..lol and most of it had to be crash tested before approval..
if the mig is set up right and you have good penetration,and pool the weld correctly there shouldnt be any issues,although it should be done in a jig..
id get a second opinion m8...:thumbsu::thumbsu:

richh 08-03-2011 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devon-tony (Post 605727)
ok so Im at the stage of in the next week pulling the trike down to be fully welded up

the guy that was going to do it has basically said that I drop it off, and could be 6 months maybe! LOL

so I just spoke with a local place, coded and all that ol stuff, hes telling me that Ive built the frame wrong as theres no gaps!

the joins in the tube are snug, ends were fishmouthed and it was all designed to fit together nicely

he mumbled that it wasnt a problem, go in with cutting discs and grinding discs, cut this about grind that about, needs a 2mm rod, should have left a 2mm gap between the joins

he didnt see the problem with cutting the tubes apart, grinding the ends about and putting it back together :(

have I dropped a major bollock here?

ok so this isnt all of it obviously but this is how pretty much all the joins are, milled or filed to as near as damnit perfect fit
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...n/6-10-103.jpg

if Im going to be told that this cant be welded up properly, then Im going to scrap the whole lot and just give up LOL


looks like I might get away with having it TIG welded, bloody pissed off that I didnt realise you have to make these things with goping great gaps, goes against my basic instinct of building things

never mind.

Never heard such shite! You've done a great job, some joins may be better with a 45 degree shamfer but a decent welder would be delighted to see these joins. As its a frame it should be jigged, at least in the relation between the headstock and the axle. Welding puts lots of forces into the metal that will twist it during cooling hence the need for jigging. Your joints will help reduce these forces. Brazing the joints will prevent 99% of the distortion and would be the way I'd go with such a well prepared frame. Most builders will shy away from brazing because of the prep work needed which you seem to have done

dracken1 08-03-2011 10:47 PM

if 3mm walls i would want a chamfer on the ends. when mig'n 6mm plate butt welds i set a gap of 2mm
but gas bronze welding we aim for no gaps

gringo 10-03-2011 08:36 PM

frame looks good to weld to me (im simon dixies mate ) youve done the hard work by not leaving any gaps i dont do champhers as you only have to replace it with filler rod and theres nothing stronger than the tube its self my no is 07796851073

matthewmosse 10-03-2011 10:21 PM

My personal approach would be to braze that, probably cos I'm old fasioned But Malcolm at Metal Malarkey engineering tends to go the brasing route too (I did 2 weeks work expirience there a fair while ago) As I recall he reconed that it was more tolerant of vibration or something of that ilk. Personally I just enjoy using the oxy acet kit.

devon-tony 11-03-2011 08:26 AM

cheers guys.

hopefully Rob will be coming to weld it up for me, just waiting to get money for new wire and gas bottle, near 100 for that :(

just been given a car so can move the frame about now, but dont actually know if it will fit in there LOL

thanks Gringo, Im down in North Devon, usually miles from everyone LOL

I will see how this pans out, brazing is totally alien to me, I dont have gas gear and wouldnt have a clue how to braze, but I agree it would be the option I would take, along with TIG if I had the gear or ability.

tried to find a TIG welding college course, but nothing, and they wonder why industry is going down the pan LOL

rob 11-03-2011 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hacky (Post 605831)
never heard about the gap thing before???
after 15 years mig welding in prototype automotive stuff ive never been told i need a gap..lol and most of it had to be crash tested before approval..
if the mig is set up right and you have good penetration,and pool the weld correctly there shouldnt be any issues,although it should be done in a jig..
id get a second opinion m8...:thumbsu::thumbsu:

2nd opinion'll be me then...

28 years welding, dozens of bike frames, commercial, industrial, agricultural, automotive etc.
self taught, no certs etc, which limits work a bit, but things don't break when i glue 'em together. i'm working with a fully coded welder at the mo on a small production run of stuff, and even he can't tell which bits he did and which ones i did.

and you don't need a jig......

devon-tony 11-03-2011 06:46 PM

just doing some work on a bike for someone local, turns out hes a welder, agricultural and plant stuff, he happily admitted that he wouldnt want to weld round all the tubing as its not what he normally does, but he had a quick play with my welder, and changed the setup, the result is like night and day

upped the power by one and dropped the wire slightly, I done some test pieces, and then smashed and hamered them, cut them open, got penetration and they look half decent LOL

lots more practice, but Im thinking of doing it, I fully welded the hardtail chop frame that I last built, and that hasnt broke. :)

until then I still got the seat bracket for the front of the seat to fab and mount, as well as the work on the rad and oil cooler mount.

but if I bottle it, I will give you a shout Rob, my mum bought us a car, so I got transport now.

dracken1 21-03-2011 12:57 AM

okay maybe you do'nt need a build jig, but a welding jig certainly saves a lot of grief.
we mostly bronze weld everything.
the swingarm below is built in a jig. we don't put on the brake torque arm mount untill it is sold and we know where the customer wants it.
if we weld that little bracket on out of the jig the arm it is welded to will move 2mm. on a swing arm that is a lot
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...g?t=1300668752


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:00 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.