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-   -   Wot ave I let meself in for? (http://www.100-biker.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3780)

MSVA Tech 25-01-2005 04:07 PM

Wot ave I let meself in for?
 
Hi all,

Just had a chat with the Ed who's convinced me to make myself available (oh er) on the forum.

I'm Chris the MSVA Tech bod at VOSA I cant promise to check out the forum every day but if you do have any MSVA tech questions I'll do my best to answer quickly. If you're desperate my number is in Issue 60.

Cheers now

100%Pat 25-01-2005 04:12 PM

Welcome Chris, thanks for making the effort to do this for us, I'm sure everyone will appreciate it.
So anyone with trike MSVA questions you can ask them here.
:D
Please DO NOT waste Chris's time with asking stuff you would know if you werent too tight to buy the manual, please only use this for GENUINE queries!

Yoda 25-01-2005 04:21 PM

First MSVA Thread
 
Okay here goes

what adaptions are considered necessary for a trike to be exempt from the MSVA under the disability option
my new trike will have all hand controls and wheelchair rack (i am disabled by the way..its not a 'get out of jail free' question ;) )
also do you know how you apply for exemption

Yoda

ps as it aint going through MSVA does this mean i can have a giant spike sticking out the front (for leaf collecting purposes of course)

Mad Dog 25-01-2005 05:31 PM

Welcome Chris,

you are sure gonna have yer work cut out.

Take a look around some of the tech posts already here.

Peirre 25-01-2005 05:47 PM

The MSVA manual
got any info on it, availability, where to get, price, ISBN number etc.................

titusni 25-01-2005 11:38 PM

New MSVA changes/revisions
 
Hi Chris

I had a trike MSVA'ed here in Northern Ireland last January (was the 1st time trike MSVA had been done here). The trike failed on a few minor points - one of which was the absence of hazard lights.

The thing is the triker builder's MSVA manual did not have this requirement in it. He got his manual in October, the hazard requirement was added in November and triker builder was only getting manual revisions at 3 month intervals - so he showed up with his copy of the book (no hazard info in it) and was pointed to the examiner's manual (new copy with the hazard bit in it).

Why doesn't the MSVA work like the house building regs do - changes are announced sufficiently in advance of them coming into force so that people don't turn up and fail due to regs they knew nothing about?

Sir Ewok 26-01-2005 03:57 AM

Hi m8 and welcome to the madhouse. I have a trike, registered as a classic vehicle, will hazards etc be a requirement for MOT purposes (I know it's not an MSVA question, but the rule requiring them stems from there) as somee peeps have had probs.

Can't see a 1905 Darraq with acetalyne lights being retro fitted with emergency flashers, can you?

MSVA Tech 26-01-2005 10:36 AM

Phew!
 
:eek: Hi all,

Ok from the top

Pat - thanks I'll do my best

Yoda - Hi, it's the person that gains the exemption, there are no specific tech requirements. What you have with the controls will qualify if your disability is as defined in section 1 of the Disability Discrimination Act. To gain exemption you make a declaration to the DVLA when applying for first licence and registration (form V55). They may want to see the trike. Best advice I can give is to suplly them with as much info about you and the trike as poss. Good luck with it. Just dont ride near me with the pike nut on steroids!

Mad Dog - Cheers mate, I reckon I'll learn just as much as wot I pass on if not more!

Pierre - To get your hands on a manual call our National Enquiry no 0870 6060440 for card sales or send cheque /PO to VOSA, PO Box 12, Swansea, SA1 1BP. Always tell them you want a MOTORCYCLE SVA manual or you might get the car one which costs £7 more. MSVA manual is currently £30 inc p+p, ok sale pitch over. It might be worth hangin on a bit as the first update is having it's final proof read at the mo so should be published soon if TSO are quick off the mark. If you already have a manual send off that bit at the front so that you get notifed when the update is available.

Titusni - The NI scheme is run by DVTA for DOENI, they have run aparallel scheme to ours since startup and since Jan 05 have their own legislation. Hazards for trikes/quads have always been a requirement since the scheme began. Pre scheme some draft versions of the manual were put on the net so that people could comment on the tech requirements for the DfT consultation, this got us the width increase from 1300 to 1700 before 2 headlamps required. One official manual was published these were removed from the net. Bike trike requirements (as opposed to carcyclea) are in Annex 5 of section 6.

Sir Ewok - What ho i've ordered meself an MoT manual so that I'll be in a better position for these kind of enquiries. Vehicles first registered before 01 April 1986 are exempt hazard warning requirements so you should be ok. It would be a real bugger try to blow out and relight four acetylene lamps in sequence.

Thats it folks catch you all again soon

chris

minxy 26-01-2005 07:26 PM

Thumbs Up
 
Excellent idea Pat.

Hope you have as much fun as folk trying to catch you out Chris ;) Brave man lol .... :cool:

A great asset to the tech forum.

100%Pat 27-01-2005 11:17 AM

Minxy
 
I cant really take the credit for this, Chris rang in about something and then I pressganged him..... :p

Mad Dog 28-01-2005 11:15 AM

Hey Chris,

there are are couple of questions suitable for your advice on the "Rear Mudguard" thread below this one.

Jay 28-01-2005 12:19 PM

Hi Chris

Any info me?

http://www.100-biker.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=3750

Cheers

J

titusni 28-01-2005 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSVA Tech
Titusni - The NI scheme is run by DVTA for DOENI, they have run aparallel scheme to ours since startup and since Jan 05 have their own legislation. Hazards for trikes/quads have always been a requirement since the scheme began. Pre scheme some draft versions of the manual were put on the net so that people could comment on the tech requirements for the DfT consultation, this got us the width increase from 1300 to 1700 before 2 headlamps required. One official manual was published these were removed from the net. Bike trike requirements (as opposed to carcyclea) are in Annex 5 of section 6.

This was in January 2004. My trike builder had obtained a manual direct from VOSA (and paid the fee for it) in October 2003 and it didn't have the hazard requirement in it - the DVTA guys had it in their manual (they got in Dec 2003 I think) so they ended up photocopying the page(s) for him to help get him ready for the retest. So either VOS sold him a draft or there must have been more than one version published...

Ah well.................trike's been MSVAed a year now (though it did take them about 4 hours to test it originally). There seem to be some "variation" in how testers apply/interepret the rules - my handbrake only operates on the rear LHS wheel although some people on here reckon it should operate on both rear wheels - didn't stop it passing MSVA.

There's pictures at "http://www.oldcolo.com/~bradley/trike/" if you're interested in seeing a lovely shaft driven, bike-engined, IRS setup
:D

Gypsy 28-01-2005 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by titusni
This was in January 2004. My trike builder had obtained a manual direct from VOSA (and paid the fee for it) in October 2003 and it didn't have the hazard requirement in it - the DVTA guys had it in their manual (they got in Dec 2003 I think) so they ended up photocopying the page(s) for him to help get him ready for the retest. So either VOS sold him a draft or there must have been more than one version published...

Ah well.................trike's been MSVAed a year now (though it did take them about 4 hours to test it originally). There seem to be some "variation" in how testers apply/interepret the rules - my handbrake only operates on the rear LHS wheel although some people on here reckon it should operate on both rear wheels - didn't stop it passing MSVA.

There's pictures at "http://www.oldcolo.com/~bradley/trike/" if you're interested in seeing a lovely shaft driven, bike-engined, IRS setup
:D

yeah , me likes that trike :D

Tom-madbiker 30-01-2005 01:11 AM

so do you only need a hand brake on one side then legally?

guydewdney 30-01-2005 12:36 PM

not rewally a NSVA or MOT question - more a construction and use regs one...

The law states, quite clearly (as reported on many trike building sites) thats:-

You must wear a helmet on a two wheeled motorcycle
UNLESS
1) you are sitting in a sidecar
2) it is a mowing machine...

Its (2) im interested in - (stop laughing!!!) - if i attached a small strimmer to the bottom of the bike - would it then be a mowing machine? how much grass do i have to be able to cut? why couldnt i attch a tiny electric motor and a small blade (old style razor blade?) to it - it cuts grass doesnt it?

are mowing machines allowed on the motorway?

How do i re-register it as a mowing machine?

would this need MSVA? (i doubt it as it has not had the chassis altered in any way)

cue image of being stopped by plod, and having to demonstrate the grass cutting ability on the side of the A41..
cue image of being in court and explaing that its designed for cutting very very narrow strips of grass.... very quickly.. lol

davesatan 30-01-2005 05:42 PM

trike mot manual and sva one wich numbers etc cheers dave

100%Pat 31-01-2005 09:59 AM

Guy!!
 
I was very tempted to delete your post.... I have stated very clearly this thread is for serious questions only! No I dont have a sense of humour about this, Chris is a very busy bloke and we are feckin lucky he has agreed to give up his time to post on here....He doesnt need to waste even more time wading through bollox posts to work out serious questions. You can post whatever bollox you like on other threads.
NOT THIS ONE!! :mad:

Sir Ewok 31-01-2005 10:52 AM

He could be SERIOUSLY looking for a loophole which makes an ass of the entire MSVA system. Wether that is a good thing or not is up to each individual to work out. Personally if one or two peeps get round the system, fine, however if it opens the floodgates to thousands (some of which may well be dangerous) then no....

100%Pat 31-01-2005 10:58 AM

I still think asking questions like that of an MSVA official who is freely giving up his time to try and help us is not on. Enuf said, or its still time wasting on this thread.

hondapants 31-01-2005 09:14 PM

i have quite a short and simple question.
i have a honda cx 500 and i want to trike it. i know all i have to do is mount an axle on the back and modify the shaft etc. my question is will i still need to get an engineers report for it? it will still only have 2 seats but three wheels.

MSVA Tech 01-02-2005 03:35 PM

CX500 trike
 
Hi Hondapants,

Nice simple question they reply might not be I'm afraid. Basically you will be radically altering a bike to a trike so the taxation class will change which you need to tell the DVLA about. This should result in them wanting a Ministers Approval Certificate (MAC) which is what we issue following a successful MSVA examination.

MSVA is a pre registration check of design and construction, it is a non destructive visual examination that aims to ensure bikes, trikes and some quads meet, as closely as is practicable, type approval requirements. An independant enineers report would give information that depends on what requirements the engineer was assessing against but would not satisfy the DVLA.

Don't be put off, MSVA is not the nightmare that early rumours would have everyone believe. Check out Trike Tek in the magazine to see what can be achieved while meeting the requirements.

Good luck with it

Chris

MSVA Tech 01-02-2005 03:49 PM

Books and Manuals
 
Davesatan (sounds like one of my daughters old boyfriends :D )

You can order both from the VOSA Enquiry Unit on 0870 6060440

For MSVA ask for the MSVA Inspection manual (£30 inc p+p)

For MoT ask for the Car & light Commercial MoT testers manual (£Don't know)

Hope this helps

Cheers

Chris

addjunkie 01-02-2005 09:00 PM

simple question relating to hand brakes on trikes. I know it needs to operate on both rear wheels, but does the operating handle need to be on any specific side of the trike, might need to put it on the right for a disabled relative to drive too. also does it need to be easily operable whilst driving, or just usable when stopped.

Also if a manual bias or balance value is fitted into a hydraulic linked brakeing system does it need to be visibly locked in one position, if not easily accessible from the driving position.

thanks for your time............ way better than ringing any goverment offcie help line , pressing 1, 2, 5, 1, 4 to get a recored message, im sure you know what i mean.

guydewdney 01-02-2005 10:07 PM

i cant believe for a moment that a handbrake has to be on any particular side - my GFs trike has a lh operating handbrake off a Jag XJS (as it drops bak down after use - not stick up like 99% of HBs) - the reason for this is the XJS has it on the RHS of the drivers seat for some reason.

All mercedes from about the 1980s onwards have a FOOT operated handbrake - finger release (ok - OT - heres a challenge for you - {dont reply here} - how do u do a hill start with that system?)

back on topic - so if Merc make handbrakes on the foot, jag on the rhs - i cant see them winge-ing abotu wich side its on...

bias valves are entriely adjustable - some automatically - so why not manually? leave it be..


Guy
{still thinking of lawnmowers ;) }

Tom-madbiker 01-02-2005 11:48 PM

yes but i want to know whether a trike will pass the msva with a hand brake operating only on one side cos it would be an arse to change if it fails on it

Chris can you put my mind at rest

thanks Tom

Sir Ewok 02-02-2005 03:33 AM

My handbrake is underneath the trike and you have to lay on the ground to operate it!!!! Trike was built that way and has passed every MOT since built.

Jag are probably tapping into the nostalgia thing, when cars had their handbrakes outside on the running board and it does leave a hand free for gear changing etc....

Yoda 02-02-2005 09:45 AM

a lighting question
as i understand it a trike over a certain width needs twin headlights

what id i was to use one 6"headlamp and 2 x 4" headlamps on a bar either side would this pass the two headlamp rule?
(obviously they would all be set to come on with the lighting as normal)

Yoda

MSVA Tech 02-02-2005 11:37 AM

Time to learn new words
 
Ok peeps "handbrakes" we all call em that and no doubt will forever more but (told you there always was one) when we're dealing with regulations, directives, acts and MSVA we call them parking brakes, why? well for one if we're operating a handle bar steered vehicle we usually use our right hand to operate a "service" (the braking systems used to slow or stop the vehicle under normal use) brake and, as was pointed out by our potential grass chopper, merc and some others (usually septic cars) have a parking prake operated by the foot. So if we call it a parking brake we can operate it with whatever body part suits.

Now for MSVA (if its already registered then MSVA doesnt apply) a bike trike (and handlebar steered quad but not a three wheeled moped) requires a parking brake that operates on the wheels of at least one axle, so both rears or the single front.
The parking brake must be able to be applied from the driving position (either side)

The control must be operated independantly from any service brake so a bungy around the handlebar lever is a no no.

It must be held in the "on" (applied) position by purely mechanical means so no hydraulic or pneumatic or magical systems.

All clear? as mud? good read the next Trike Tek I think Alik is gonna expand on all this

Cheers

Chris

MSVA Tech 02-02-2005 11:44 AM

Damn forgot the bias valve
 
If braking systems are fitted with adjustable bias valves the brakes will need to be tested in the "worstcase scenario" ie with the adjustment at both extremes best bet is to find the happy medium and lock the adjuster in position, drilling and roll pins keep the examiners happy.

Cheers

Chris


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