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-   -   Bolt on back ends? (http://www.100-biker.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35826)

trikerdrew 15-07-2008 12:15 PM

Bolt on back ends?
 
Anyone care to enlighten me?

Came across a chap with a Harley trike that was bolt on hardtailed.Had a chat on the exotic Narborogh road and he set me thinkin' big time.

He said that it was a case of informing local vehicle licence office,mot and weighbridge chitty-can it still be that easy?

Poised with bender/welder if it is!!:thumbsu:

Your thoughts genulfolk??

drew

matthewmosse 15-07-2008 12:21 PM

If the modification is not pernement and is detachable then yes you just need to tell the dvla, I think they may need to see the vehicle to confirm that the chasis itself is unaltered. but trikes are/were marketed on this basis. the same would apply to hardtails I think. Read the wot ave I let myself into? thread, I think it refers to this................

Blackjack 15-07-2008 07:29 PM

Hmmm.

Spooky...... :eek:

matthewmosse 15-07-2008 07:33 PM

you the same blackjack of trike torqe / shed head fame?:confused:

trikerdrew 15-07-2008 08:04 PM

yep,he is
 
the rht hon spanner weilding Mr Blackjack.

drew

shaggy696969 15-07-2008 08:17 PM

I had to provide reciepts and a engineers report stating what materials/parts were used and reciepts from their source. You cant swap back at whim, unlike one that was advertised recently as not needed to be DVLA regd as you could switch back within 2 hrs, thats bollocks. Weighbridge ticket Mot then off to DVLA, then they change logbook and you pay for the road tax.

matthewmosse 15-07-2008 08:22 PM

recipts, damn, I've got loadsa bits that I've picked up off farm auctions, hadv thrown in in kob lots etc. Geuss I'll have to make out a recipt to and from me:confused:

matthewmosse 15-07-2008 08:35 PM

Gotta say, shed head and trike torqe are the first bits of the magazine I read, lotsa good how to stuff for a numpty like me. I really liked the vintage style bike that took shape recently:thumbsu::thumbsu:

Blackjack 15-07-2008 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewmosse (Post 523954)
you the same blackjack of trike torqe / shed head fame?:confused:

Guilty, yer honour. :D

hacky 15-07-2008 10:42 PM

sorry ,but now im confused.
i was under the impression that if i say had a trike rear end whlch was swapable ,ie swingarm ....blah..as long as it is swapable i dont need to notify anyone,only because its not a permanent change and doesnt modify thr chassis...
i take it im wrong then?
:D:D

Blackjack 15-07-2008 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hacky (Post 524008)
sorry ,but now im confused.
i was under the impression that if i say had a trike rear end whlch was swapable ,ie swingarm ....blah..as long as it is swapable i dont need to notify anyone,only because its not a permanent change and doesnt modify thr chassis...
i take it im wrong then?
:D:D

There's that bit were it now falls in a different taxation class....

hacky 15-07-2008 11:01 PM

i didnt think that would change,i only mention it as i know a guy thats built a swapable trike rear on a virago(no acounting for taste...lol) and he's convinced he does'nt need to notify anyone as it can be changed back....?:D:D

trikerdrew 16-07-2008 07:22 AM

Reality bites
 
Sounds like you virago riding bud is misinformed looking through the posts.

DVLA aren't fluffy nice folk.They do care if your tax is wrong and will do whatever they like to get .Police can crush car for no tax that should get him thinking:eek:

drew

MSVA Tech 16-07-2008 07:35 AM

Right then, chap with virago could be heading for a fall, he's riding around on a trike, plod run reg number, DVLA database comes back saying bicycle, tax disc says bicycle, mot comes up as class 2(bike) could be the start of a slopey shoulder snowball. Effectively not licensed or mot'd correctly, not notified DVLA of changes, not notified insurance of change oops.

Damn you Trikerddrew....... too fast for me:D

matthewmosse 16-07-2008 07:44 AM

I think oppinion is a bit divided because the dvla aren't really geared up for the idea. I get the same with sidecars, I have 2 outfits, 1 registred as motorcycle the other as motorcycle and sidecar combination. Both have been through the new computerised mot's both can be removed in about half an hour and theoretically every time I do this I should tell DVLA of the change and my insurers. It's easyer to just use the other halfs bike:D. The one registred as a motorcycle has had it's sidecar on there for at least 15 years and police never commented about it.(Ive changed very little on the bike so cann't see the need to tell DVLA) Some legislation says it's a 'bolt on accessory' unless it's welded on but I think it's a gray area and best to at least write to Dvla to inform them emphasizing the Bolt on, and Chasis not modified points. Final thing, is the tax different for bike derived trikes to bikes then? the MOT fee for a sidecar is higher but insurance lower and tax is unaffected. which would make charging extra for a trike illogical, not that that ever stopped them with tax.:thumbd:

MSVA Tech 16-07-2008 08:03 AM

From a lincensing (tax disc) point of view outfits are taxed the same as bikes it is the bike that is licensd and the chair as you rightly point out seen as a detachable accessory. Bike tax based on engine capacity only; up to 150, 151 - 400, 401 - 600, over 600. Trike tax more complicated based on capacity and unladen weight, if a trike is not more than 450kg unladen it is taxed as tricycle with up to 150 cc and over 150cc brackets. If trike is over 450kg it is taxed as PLG and has not over 1549cc and over 1549cc brackets.

Five years ago I asked DVLA if they were going to bring trike tax in line with type approval definitions ie three wheels and up to 1000kg unladen got a curt reply that it was a matter for the chancellor, didn't bother holding my breath.

When it comes to MOTs outfits are tested under class 1/2 (bike) manual but charged same as class 3 (3 wheeled 450 kg limit). Trikes are tested under class 3/4/7 maunual (cars/light goods). The weight thing comes in again class 3 get same test but cheaper than trikes over 450kg which are defined as class 4.:confused:

Blackjack 16-07-2008 12:13 PM

Since it came up here....

What's your take on welding mounting points to a stock frame for the purposes of bolting a trike rear end on Chris?

Given that the mountings don't interfere with converting it back to a bike is it still going to be exempt from an MSVA?

MSVA Tech 17-07-2008 07:09 AM

This is going to depend very much on your local DVLA, if they spot the frame is modified they will probably ask for MSVA.

Using their kit conversion route (the bolt-on loophole) it is possible to get a trike an age related plate following MSVA if the frame is modified, if at least two major components are used from the donor vehicle.

The loophole is unmodified frame and at least two major components.

Gets annoying when I get called up by people moaning about failing MOT, ask 'was it MSVA'd?' 'no, its a bolt on' hey ho

odie 17-07-2008 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSVA Tech (Post 524258)
Using their kit conversion route (the bolt-on loophole) it is possible to get a trike an age related plate following MSVA if the frame is modified, if at least two major components are used from the donor vehicle.

In that case Nottingham are lieing, took trike their and they said no, was bolt in, no mods to frame.
had modified the swinging arm, it unbolted and could be back to a bike in 2 hours!

shaggy696969 17-07-2008 10:47 AM

It doesnt matter how quickly it can be changed you still got to change the veihicle details. Insurance for bikes and trikes are completely different as with road tax, or no one would register a trike as it would be far cheaper to keep on normal bike insurance. you can change back but you must do the whole DVLA thing in reverse including new mot new tax and obviously new insurance the re reg as a bike again. is it worth it, I doubt it somehow. My trike has a age related plate changing docs was no big hassle and they didnt want to see the trike, just took details from engineers report and their own forms.

odie 17-07-2008 11:25 AM

I am well aware that is dont matter how long it takes to turn it back to a bike, what i was saying is that they "Q" plated it, they didnt have to.
Frame wasnt touched, had log book, old mot's bla, bla, bla, had just been mot'd on its chassi number and had insurance on chassi number, not knowing whether it would keep its original plate or get an age related plate
They chose to "Q" plate it when it should of either kept its plate or had age related according to every-one on here.
Now who's right, 100% biker or the ministry of transport?

shaggy696969 17-07-2008 11:31 AM

Make your own mind up, you seem to answer your own questions.


but FWIW i have come across a few differnt outcomes, Maybe just because you mot'd on chassis plate you confused em, its easy to do. I would have disputed there claim and pushed it to appeal as a q plate is worth fuck all insurance wise.

odie 17-07-2008 11:36 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Doing a new trike now.
Bolt in rear again, lets hope it keeps its plate:unsure:

trikerdrew 17-07-2008 12:12 PM

In summary then,if I understand
 
The frame is unmodified and the bolt on trike back is detachable.I retain the original plate,no nasty Q plate then,hurrah.

Bike gets taxed as a trike,fair enough.

Weighed at bridge ticket for under 450Kg:rolleyes:

MOT at local bod.

Present it to local vehicle office to change registration class.

Is that on the nose?

drew

matthewmosse 17-07-2008 12:31 PM

Ok, since we are asking questions, I've come up with a few. Assuming I scratch build a trike, how does registering this work in reality. I know it'll be Q plated, cos I got a discount for cash for some bits and bought many years ago and lost recipts do I stand a chance in hell of registering? Might it help if I bought a bike with second donor engine to get the recipt that matches the engine no. I know thus far that I need to insure before using on road, eg take to msva. Then register? the weight certificate, can I get this at the msva or do i need to get the thing to a weigh bridge first? What are the emitions regulations for a diesel trike or bike I've a 1994 hatz motor that looks kinda tempting for a special:thumbsu:
You'd never geuss Id never built a trike or hardtail etc before:rolleyes:

shaggy696969 17-07-2008 04:02 PM

Buy yourself the MSVA book and work to the letter or you do not have a hope in hell. Bassically Look under the MSVA Tech section in workshop plenty of answeres in there.

Mistress Maker 17-07-2008 04:12 PM

my trike is bolt on back end.............its on here somewhere, and was motd on its origional number then (tester noted wrong class on log book), weighed, off to dvla for a cursory inspection , kept its number coz it scored enough points in their totting up scheme, where you get 5 points for the frame, 1 for steeting, 1 for suspension, 1 for engine 1 for gear box etc and you need 8 to keep your number.

but mr shaggy is right build your trike to pass the msva even if they are bolt on then you wont go far wrong. most of it is common sense but writen in government speak.



however on a trike a q plate means its properly registered ,

spookbass 13-08-2008 08:02 PM

You used to be able to register a bike with a bolted on rear trike subframe as "Convertable", though I've no idea if that's still the case.

spookbass 13-08-2008 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odie (Post 524305)
Doing a new trike now.
Bolt in rear again, lets hope it keeps its plate:unsure:

WAAAAAY to Shiny, Brother Odie, but I'll let you off as it at least is black!!!:thumbsu:

Bodge 13-08-2008 09:42 PM

oooer! this aint for me.....
http://www.blackrosetrikes.co.uk/for...opic.php?t=378
But, wot if you decided to weld up your bolt on rear after a year or so?. Would you need to SVA?


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