um, hope pat doesn't smack me for this

[Doro]

I was looking at the 100% faces thread and noticed that mad bomber site and saw they use rabbit fur for their hats.

now as a fashion item I am completely against fur (how did you guess? lol)

but as a means of keeping warm - like in Russia - it is acceptable (to me anyway)

I saw a thing about the coldest place to live on Earth (siberia somewhere) where it got as low as -80 deg. C (I kid you not)

now the reporter went over there in all the latest warm nylon/gortex/synthetic type clothing, only to almost freeze when he went outside. The family he was staying at chucked his fancy warm wear away and gave him fur to wear - and he said it really did work at keeping him warm

so yeah, I think that justifies wearing fur for warmth

so there I am all self-righteous n stuff - when I realised - I wear leather (a lot)

so I tell myself that's ok cos we eat cows

but I suspect the leather we wear does not come from the cows we eat


now then, without getting nasty about it, can we have an informed discussion about whether I can justify wearing leather if I'm against wearing fur (for FASHION not practical use)


um - yeah - signed: confused, Newark



PS keep it nice tho or Pat will have my guts for garters (a bit of a pun there ha ha)

:eek:

[Gypsy]

i think the fact that mink etc are purly bred fro thier fur for clothing is wrong, use all the animal and i dont see a problem with it

[Yoda]

if you agree with the killing of animal to use there skins for survival - then you can justify it
if you say coming off your bike and not killing yourself, is survival is no -because, there are realistic alternatives, kevlar, gortex,(T-shirt n jeans :) ) etc..

so really, you are a very naughty girl

Yoda

[Gypsy]

so really, you are a very naughty girl

Yoda
hehe just how i like her :D

[rommel]

Interesting, I know where your coming from but what is the difference whether you kill it to eat it or kill it to wear it?

I believe they do use the skin from cows that are killed for meat but wouldn't swear on it.

And what about milk this is take away from calves!!!! :eek:

[slob]

we're top of the food chain and can do what we want. Until the animals can seriously justify why we shouldn't kill them we can do what we want with their pathetic little carcasses!

[JOE]

I worked on an ostrich farm for a while an' me dad was a tractorman when I was a kid. In both cases the meat and the hide were used (that's probably why we get cheap leather shoes). I can't vouch for all leather stuff (obviously) but even the best leather producers would process the meat I would have thought - coz it's quick an easy to do. On the farm I worked on, the meat basically paid for all the bills wages etc an' the money from the hide (ostrich leather is expensive, despite bein' full o' holes) was pure profit

[Bag Lady]

I wouldn't wear fur, but leather is o.k.......mmmmmm this is something I have always thought as well. But actually thinking WHY...that I have not done.

Let me see....

I suppose I have always thought leather was o.k. because we eat cow's. Cows are domestic animals that we breed for us to use, so we try and use as much as we can. Even using bones for stock and hooves for glue.

Fur though....
That generally comes from wild animals, and usually beautiful wild animals at that. Leopards and ocelot.....I really do not agree with killing them for fur.
The fur looks better on the animal.

I do not know if leather comes from using "eating" cows hide, but we can easily pretend that it does.

Wearing a dead leopard is just that. There is no pretence that it is a by product. The animal is dead and has been killed just for its fur.

Those are my reasons.... :D

[ernie the dwarf]

we're top of the food chain and can do what we want. Until the animals can seriously justify why we shouldn't kill them we can do what we want with their pathetic little carcasses!

Well said that man :D

[PILRCGeff]

Fur though....
That generally comes from wild animals,


I doubt it, its far easier to catch and kill a bred animal, take mink for instance, bred for fur, not hunted in the wild for fur. And they are horrible little buggers.

I have no problem killing something to eat it. I have no problem killing something for its skin either. I have no problem killing something because it is dangerous. Only time I have a problem is if you deliberately kill it inhumanely or its an endangered species.

If your a veggie, you shouldnt be wearing leather really now should you?
If you eat beef, might as well wear leather. Same argument with sheepskin.
And people eat rabbits so might as well wear rabbit fur too. Squirrel was in the news lately as the in thing to eat. Not a lot of meat or fur on one of them but hey, why not!

I wouldnt actually eat a mink, I think that would probably not taste great. But I do like these mink lined undies Im wearing today although they are a tad warm this time of year!

[Cook1e]

I was a veggie for 15 years (bloody bacon butties at rallies changed all that!). I wouldn't touch fur (though I am sure it would suit me!), but I only wear leather on the bike. I just havn't been proved that the alternatives are any good yet.
On the subject, I once met a fur trader - and I actually think he was a nice guy doing an OK job. You see, he worked as the 1st English fur trader for the Hudson Bay company (they used to use scots men exclusively, due to thier hardyness). He traded with the indians - fur was a by-product to them in those days, they ate to live and clothed themselves in the most useful fur, but couldnt use it all. The only problem with the trade was that the indians used to use the money to get blind drunk on.
I guess it is all down to alternatives and what people call essential to them. Not too many people (I hope) would go out to cause unnessasary suffering to an animal. Some dont think about it. Some think animal products are essential to them, and other will go out of their way to avaid animal products.
The people who annoy me the most are the ones who trick themselves, I say, "if you cant kill it yourself, dont get someone else to do it for you."

[PILRCGeff]

, I say, "if you cant kill it yourself, dont get someone else to do it for you."


A very good point well made cookie. So many people think meat comes from supermarkets.

Well it does sort of! But it wouldnt be a bad thing if people actually understood that to eat meat you have to kill animals.

In fact things always taste best if you kill them yourself. Same with growing your own veg if your a veggie!

I know some people whos kids wont eat rabbit for instance because they have seen rabbits looking fluffy in the petshop.

My kids will happily eat any kind of meat. I never hid from them the fact that meat is dead animals. They knew almost as soon as they could recognise a pig that that was where bacon comes from and so on. They are fussy little buggers but at least not in that respect.

[Worjorj]

The McDonalds in Nairobi does nice McLeopard nuggets, so there's justification.

[PILRCGeff]

The McDonalds in Nairobi does nice McLeopard nuggets, so there's justification.
In that case I feel fully justified to wear my new leopard skin boots in public, thank you Wojorj

[wearthefoxhat]

Ah.
The hat is actually made of dead fox..er...hem.

(shuffles towards exit)

[Rabid1]

The animals that have been bred for fur would not have been born at all so the fact that they are alive at all is down to the fur trade so they are therefore encourageing the existance of these breads of animals. just like the WWF :rolleyes:

[Doro]

yeah my point is if it's for practical use like safety or warmth then it's ok, and if you eat the dead animal it's ok, I guess catching a wild animal for it's skin is ok, I just don't like the idea of animals being bred just for their fur which will only ever be worn for fashion/status purposes

still not sure if I can get all uppity about fur if I wear leather for un-practical purposes lol

[worried about me new rock boots]

I used to have a full fox fur wot ladees wore draped round their shoulders, it's teeth was a clip that was used to grip the tail so it would stay on, I inherited it off my granny, it belonged to her mother in the 1890s or so, and was probs worth a fortune, but teenage angst had me selling it to the first one who wanted it for £1.50 :eek:

maybe it's simply media hype that gives me a distate for fur yet not question leather?

but then I guess cows ain't cute n furry either

*hmmmmmm*

[Doro]

The animals that have been bred for fur would not have been born at all so the fact that they are alive at all is down to the fur trade so they are therefore encourageing the existance of these breads of animals. just like the WWF :rolleyes:


hmmmm interesting view :rolleyes:

[Bag Lady]

but then I guess cows ain't cute n furry either



Ahhhhh

Yes they are. When Shep works at the weekend I sometimes go out with him and we feed the cattle.

They have lovley big eyes and eyelashes to die for.. (well they do die, but for steak and pies, not eyelashes).

They are very curious as well and if you walk in the field next to them they wander over to see what you are doing. They like having their heads scratched, and they love sucking your fingers - leaves you with a gooey cow slobbered hand....... I know for a fact that one of the ones I petted last year is now dismembered and parts are in my freezer...(only the tasty bits)

[xjtriker666]

WOT,S NEWARK GO TA DO WITH IT...YEA LOADS OV ANIMALS THERE AS WELL...............oooops fukk caps on............

[Dougie]

Deer are the same.A few years ago we went to the Scottish Deer Farm near Cupar,and they're quite tame,you can buy grub for 'em and feed them.They are very cute.
BTW,don't stop me eating venison!YUM YUM! :p :D

[Doro]

I used Newark cos it's an interesting anagram :D

and I'm scared of cows *shivers*

[The Beer Monsters]

Nowt wrong with Newark... We shall be entertaining the Newarkians on Sunday.

[xjtriker666]

very interesting.anagram....yea an most from newark are w*****s...trust me.

[poridge wog]

i've been watchin that advert on the telly for the world wildlife fund, about endangered animals,, its the animals own fault, if the giant panda was to taste better it wouldnt be so scarce :eek:

[excalibur]

yeah, was thinking the same.

When I skin a rabbit, the fur normaly goes in the bin.......so why not put it to some use?

[Friar Tuck]

i've been watchin that advert on the telly for the world wildlife fund, about endangered animals,, its the animals own fault, if the giant panda was to taste better it wouldnt be so scarce :eek:
That's why I've just bought a bamboo plant to put in the garden to feed all the wild pandas in Naarfolk!

[xjtriker666]

nowt rait with them either bm...decent rally end ov aug tho.....shoground...woz wolf...............

[Cook1e]

nowt rait with them either bm...decent rally end ov aug tho.....shoground...woz wolf...............

Decent? F-ing great u mean - We are playing!!

[Abb]

Had this discussion with some on the arseholes who were picketing Tuffnells Parcels cos they work with Huntingdon Life Sciences. The conversation went summat like this:

Me: What you lot protesting about?

Hippy Tosser: HLS experimenting on animals.

Me: Oh, so you are against using animals then?

HT: Yeah, I'm a veggie and I hate animal cruelty.

Me: Nice shoes, nice belt. Fcuking hyporcite <drove off to the bank>

[The Beer Monsters]

Me: Nice shoes, nice belt. Fcuking hyporcite <drove over him on the way to the bank>
Bit harsh there, mate ;)

[Cook1e]

Had this discussion with some on the arseholes who were picketing Tuffnells Parcels cos they work with Huntingdon Life Sciences. The conversation went summat like this:

Me: What you lot protesting about?

Hippy Tosser: HLS experimenting on animals.

Me: Oh, so you are against using animals then?

HT: Yeah, I'm a veggie and I hate animal cruelty.

Me: Nice shoes, nice belt. Fcuking hyporcite <drove off to the bank>

I think that there is a massive difference between using animal by products and putting animals through excruciating pain in experiments that have been done thousands of times before.

[Mad Liz]

if you agree with the killing of animal to use there skins for survival - then you can justify it
if you say coming off your bike and not killing yourself, is survival is no -because, there are realistic alternatives, kevlar, gortex,(T-shirt n jeans :) ) etc..

There are, as you say, alternatives. However, although my gortex gear recently saved me from extensive damage, it was then unusable again, whereas leather (with the same armour) would have been unusable again.

Take into account also the chemical and manufacturing processes involved in producing man-made materials and the damage this can do to the environment, and I think that the wearing of leather on the bike is acceptable.

Just my tuppence worth.

[Abb]

As stated earlier, we are top of the food chain. We do what we want and damned be the bleeding heart liberals who whine on about it.

As for animal cruelty in the name of menical research, so what? I am sure all you parents out there would love to see your children die because you refuse to allow them to have the correct treatments as they were tested on animals. As an asthma sufferer, I am glad my medications exist - and they were tested on animals to make sure they were safe for me.

I don't agree with testing of cosmetics etc on animals though - they do not benefit humans.

[blackhack]

testing of cosmetics etc on animals

all the pigs that test the lipsticks drink in my local

[technoboiler]

i have more of a problem with the unneccesary suffering of animals than what they are used for..ie meat/fur, vivisection etc
as top of the food chain i believe we should use our 'power' wisely.

we have plenty of ways to end the suffering, cruelty etc,,, we abuse our position IMO

[Crofty]

um - yeah - signed: confused, Newark




:eek:
Newark? anagram of wanker :p I realise that has nothing to do with the discussion in hand. I live just up the road (Retford) If you and Gypsy (or anyone alse) fancy a ride out at some point gimmie a shout, I'll see if I'm off. (gotta use library comp. so may take a while to get back to you.)