Where are the hippies.....

[Mrs Reject]

Have we got any greenpeace hippies on this forum or at least some heating engineers?
Me and Mitch need new central heating as our current system is both c*rap and dangerous! We've decided to go over to the tree hugging side and hope to get something put in that is environmentally friendly like solar power (solar power in "sunny" Seaford - PAHHHHHH!) or sommat like that.
Anyone out there got some or can recommend some useful sites or alternatives to the usual gas and electricity?
AND tree hugging quest continued......how long will it be before we can get bikes that are run on something more friendly than petrochemicals?????

[Huw Beer Monster]

Have you tried the Centre for Alternative Technology (http://www.cat.org.uk)

They might have some advice.

Or http://www.environ.org.uk/~environ/about_environ/environ_energy/index.php

[bill?]

at the top of your leggies........







ok I'll get me coat.....but somebody had to say it

[ForestFred]

Bleedin hippies ,come into my forest hugging my trees ,scaring my goats getoutta moi woods,. Mutter mutter grumble grumble :)

[krammer]

you could always try burning hippies.

[cxdemon]

Is it "environmentally friendly?" :D

[Friar Tuck]

TREE HUGGING HIPPIES?

HYPOCRITES!

What do they do? Moan about petrochemicals, nuclear power etc, form protest marches, Camps etc! Then chop the bloody trees down, (the very life blood of this planet!) and make camp fires for heating and eating!

[Mitch]

Have you tried the Centre for Alternative Technology (http://www.cat.org.uk)]

I remember them from AWoL all those years ago! I'm surprised (and glad) to see them still going. It isn't that far from Custom Fastners?

[MrFluffy]

I have solar powered heating on our house in central france, we spend about 3 months a year so far on backup heat sources, which happens to coincide when we want the heating most which is a pain but thats the way it goes. Hope to cut this to one or two by improving insulation and a bigger array, plus this winter just gone was a bit harsh (for solar radiation) so difficult to judge it on that alone.
On a clear but cold winters day, we do actually get 3 or 4 hours generating time around midday, but if theres lots of low cloud and its cold your buggered.

We have a very efficient water underfloor heating system, and only 100m2 total floorspace, and our panel array is 10 m2. Eventually Id like to go to 12m2 because we have planning perms for that size, and already have all the mounting hardware in place, and hot water heating is by the solar too. Our panels are all curved tube vacumn isolated collector ones (water flows through them back to the tank) that are supposed to work more efficiently in winter.
Backup heat means dual immersions that cost a fortune to run, so next year a small oil boiler will be purchased and hooked up to a spare coil in the storage tank to try and get the costs down. Originally the suppliers told us we would run almost 90% of the time on solar alone with a 10m2 array. Bollocks.
Now the downside, I think we've spent about 8 grand so far on heating and the panels, a heatbank system boiler and all the control pumps and little computers that do the temp difference calculations. Oh, and I installed it all myself so that is just component costs, yes, I personally went up the bloody roof with the panels,a nd I havent got a head for heights. And we still have heating bills :(
Now, how hard headed are you? do you want something cost effective, or do you want something green. Because solar heating isnt both and the only people saying it is are usually salesmen. And itll take years to recover the 6 grand extra it cost us. And I wont mention the learning curve, the tank that was supplied tested and turned out to have half its wiring missing, the ufh heating system turning up with 300M too much pipework and not enough solenoid valves (and having to pay extra for them!). And the airlocks, that caused rather impressive amounts of boiling steam to eminate from the roof and terrify mrs fluffy when i was working away.
Having said that, now its stable and working its very satisfying to go into the loft space and hear it all pumping away generating free heat energy, and to read the stats from the little computer that controls it (resol differential controller).
My personal reasons behind it is that I am completely mad, and I believed the original salesman..
Another weirdness, is the only supplier in the whole mess Id recommend, is just up the road from seaford in crowborough...

[Mrs Reject]

Why is it so flippin' expensive to go green...that's what I want to know. I knew solar power would cost us about £7000, we'll check out the place in Crowborough - thanks!
What we thought we'd do discussing this last night is get solar for summer and have a woodburning/coal stove for winter with a small backboiler for hot water and one or two cooking plates on it. That way we're covered for winter and summer. Woodburning might not be as green as some methods but I don't want to be at the mercy of the big energy companies who have ripped us off for the last xxxx years! We have loads of forests round here and an endless supply of wood from forest management schemes so it's all sustainable.
I had a central heating system run on a coal burning stove in one of my previous houses, how I hated that b*stard!!! You could guarantee that the last spark would just be going out as you came downstairs in the morning and you would have to go to work with no heating on in the bathroom and cold water to wash in!!! ff's. :)

[MrFluffy]

Its not the greenness of the wood burning stove thats the problem, its the bloody mess! Its all very romantic but not so good long term day to day.
I actually removed a aga (copy) range/backboiler from our house before the solar, and mrs fluffy was eternally happy afterwards. The damn thing would go out about 2am and you'd go the loo in the middle of the night freezing. It was a bugger to light (but we found out later that the chimney was partially blocked when removing it), and it regulary managed to cover the kitchen celing in soot and generally behave badly. And we had kitty's with burnt pads on a few occasions as some times it was cold and sometimes hot... The soot issue might be down to the blockage though.
Plus then theres all the associated mess, hauling out the ashbox every day and the mess that that produces etc etc, there'll be a bit of the garden permanently trashed with wood chippings where you chop it all up small enough to fit the firebox, the neighbours will stop talking to you when they see you using a axe wildly, and you'll be having to haul logs round all the time.
To be fair apart from the chimney issue, we sort of got the hang of driving it, but its still bliss to wake up and have a warm floor mid winter from the electric backups.
Id have another one but it would have to be a ultra modern one, and it'd have to burn chippings rather than logs (and Id have to have a big electric chipper in said corner of property), so It could have some sort of self feeding hopper to restoke itself in the night/only need feeding every week or so. And be mostly self cleaning. And in a outhouse and connected to the heating by well lagged pipes underground.. This is suprisingly popular in states, where they seem to have wood burning developed rather than shunned. If you ordered a heatbank with a extra spare heating coil, you could attach whatever you wanted as a secondry backup heat source anyway, as they just have a closed loop to the heatsource.
Having said that, you probally will find the most economic method will be solar hot water and a modern gas central heating system. Id use a gas boiler for top up, but we live too far out in the sticks for mains gas, and propane costs a fortune...
For water purposes, the solar will cope perfectly, even in winter, if the system is spec'd properly and you have a big enough resivoir to retain the heat over a couple of days. We have a 350L tank , but ours does run the heating too. I think its one of the biggest the company who supplied it has made for a domestic property and we had to put in huge supporting beams because its in the loftspace..

PS, the aga got a stay of execution.. it and all the radiators from the original house heating system are now in my sheds and workshop. Mmmmm lovely warm cozy shed in winter , I get to be primeval and play with fire too, and handy to have for stove enamelling ;)

[acidpixie]

at the risk of sounding a little hippyish, you could also try www.dragonfire.org.uk they just had a renewable energy fest in the field where we walk the dog.
we didnt go, just pointed at them in thier tents, in the wet, trying to play thier didgeridoos.

Dont know why its all so dear though.
... the words "rip off"
i think that being environmentally aware is the wrong way though.
I reccon the human race needs to polute as much as possible, then we can all die, the cockroaches can clear up and Earth can get back to a routeen without us buggering things up.

[BlackPig]

at the risk of sounding a little hippyish, ......


ROFPMSL :D :D

and with a handle like that ffs :rolleyes:

[100%Pat]

we took out our old gas fire to install a log burner and I love it! Yes all Fluffy said is correct, you do end up with bark and woody bits all over the yard, its a bastard to clean out etc but we manage to keep ours alight permantly during winter, just 'riddle it' well and build it up last thing and make sure you close the damper, we do burn a small amount of coal nuts with logs though as just logs do tend to go out quicker. You really cannot beat a good fire.

[Mrs Reject]

we took out our old gas fire to install a log burner and I love it! Yes all Fluffy said is correct, you do end up with bark and woody bits all over the yard, its a bastard to clean out etc but we manage to keep ours alight permantly during winter, just 'riddle it' well and build it up last thing and make sure you close the damper, we do burn a small amount of coal nuts with logs though as just logs do tend to go out quicker. You really cannot beat a good fire.

I know, a fire is so cosy and who wants an immaculate house anyway??? Over tidy houses are not comfortable to relax in and with 4 cats, the mud they treck in and bike bits everywhere I don't think a bit of soot will be noticed!
There is something about a fire that is really cosy and inviting. as our "lawn" is not and never will be manicured I don't think a few wood chippings will be noticed.
Mind you after reading Mr Fluffy's post we may get gas boiler back up just in case especially as we both work full time there will be occasions when all we will want to do is come home, heat water, have shower and fall into bed.

[Grav]

I like hippies, my wife has a smashing pair that swish when she walks......