Speed traps

[Rogue Monkey]

Oh! dear! I got a letter asking me to sign on the dotted line to say I was the person driving the vehicle at such and such a time..blah blah...your nicked!

However, I have heard that this is a breach of my human rights i.e. Im being asked to incriminate myself, and under European law, I have the right of silence! i.e. I should not sign the form as I will be breaking my own Human rights (Which Britain has signed up for!) Hmmm! does anyone have any suggestions?

[guydewdney]

http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Accused_Home/Rules_useage/The_Law.htm

etc etc

try google?


Loophole in Section 172 Loophole, not signing the NIP form?
A loophole does appear to exist, but it is not 100% foolproof as much of the law around the loophole is somewhat cloudy and untried. Section 172 Loophole. This loophole is based upon returning your NIP paperwork unsigned. It is not as straightforward as just returning it unsigned and whilst recent court cases have clarified some parts, they have also clouded others. In summary the situation is (January 2004):

If you return your form unsigned then as you have not signed the documents its contents are not considered a "statement in writing" for the purposes of Section 12 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. Accordingly it is inadmissible as evidence under the Road Traffic Offenders Act.

BUT

If the form was completed by the defendant then it could amount to a confession under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE). This has been tested in a number of cases and been thrown out. In Bristol Crown court (Case # A20020257) on 13th December 2002 the case against John Pickford was dropped as the court concluded that as the form was unsigned it could not be taken as a confession as there was no evidence that the defendant had made it. Judge Ticehurst then went on to famously describe the situation as a lacuna in the law and that parliament will need to update the law.

SO to you will need to get someone else to complete the form for you on your behalf. This will need to be someone who can't be called to give evidence against you - so your solicitor or your spouse. You should not give them specific advice on how the form should be completed, other than asking them to ensure the legal requirements are complied with. And don't sign the form. This approach has worked in the past in a number of high profile "celebrity" cases. The person who completes the form should write a brief note explaining that they have filled out the form on your behalf acting as your agent. They should retain this note as it will be needed by you if the case goes to court.

It is highly likely that you will then receive an aggressive letter in response to your unsigned form. It is almost certain that they will refer to a ruling in a case DPP vs Broomfield 2002 and claim that this case confirmed that you must return the form completed and signed. You can read full details of this case here

We would suggest that you write back to them and point out a few key facts and ask them for clarification.

*

In DPP v Broomfield, Judge Wilkie concluded that a Police "Authority could include reasonable instructions as to the manner in which information was to be provided" in relation to Section 172 and that this could include written information. Judge Wilkie did not state that written information should be signed.
*

On the 13th December 2002 at Bristol Crown Court in the case of DPP v Pickford, Judge Ticehurst stated that a lacuna in the law does exist.
* As neither Judge Wilkie or Judge Ticehurst have highlighted the law that makes it obligatory to sign the form, please can you tell me specifically where in law it states that it is obligatory to sign the form and I would of course be happy to obey.

The above text will often make the case go away as they realise that you are aware of the law. In some cases the police will continue and next threaten you with going to court. They could try a number of approaches and most of these enter into grey/untried areas of the law, so you'll need a solicitor to progress further.

For example they could use Section 172 against you as it says that the registered keeper of the vehicle must provide the information.

Or they could use PACE to try and make a case that your form is a confession. However if they take this route then they fall into another grey area as if they try and use PACE then they must comply with it themselves and would have needed to either cautioned you or offered a full explanation of your rights prior to being required to complete a voluntary confession. As they have not done this then you have been deprived of your rights (under PACE) and under Article 6 of the ECHR to a fair trial and that what they are trying to do would fall under the category of a malicious prosecution. We do not believe that PACE applies in Scottish law.

So in summary, if you receive a NiP

1. Get your legal representative or spouse to complete the form
2. Get them to write a dated statement confirming that they have completed the form and don't send this back with the form
3. Return the form unsigned
4. Await a response and if they refer to DPP vs Broomfield 2002 then send them a response clarifiying this situation
5. If they still continue with the case you will need a solicitor to support you as part of the next step will be proceeding to court and being represented. This representation will cost you a few hundred pounds and it may not work the first time around and may need to go to appeal before you get the result you are aiming for.

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[Rabid]

All very interesting i have saved a copy of this. Just in case. thanks alot guydewdney. ;)

[Pennywise]

or just say someone nicked your blue flashing light:)

All the above....how likely is it to actually work as a final result, after appeals and all? And also would it not just be easyer to find some cretin who is under 16, who is never likely to drive, and offer them a coupe hundred notes to take your points for you?.... :D

[ollie]

my brother tried the not signing the nip thing and all that happened was that he was summoned to appear at court and got done for the speeding offence being the registered keeper (and not disclosing who was driving) so they will get you anyway only difference being that you will lose a days pay and the fine will be doubled for feckin them around :( (he got a £140 fine,£20 costs and 3pp)

[Shudy]

Try going slower?

[BlackPig]

Try going slower?


Thank phuk for that , I was begining to think I was the only one !!!!! :eek:

[Nitrowing]

Thank phuk for that , I was begining to think I was the only one !!!!! :eek:
Try going slower?

:confused: You ride mopeds?

[DANNY]

just got back from doing a driver awareness course, got flashed doing 37 in a 30 in my car. if i have to drive like i have bin shown today i would have no clutch or gear box left after a month. it did teach me afew new things but alot of it was cr%p the sort of thing that if you didnt already know and put into practice on a daily basis you would crash within 100 yds of your own front door. at least i shouldnt kill anyone as im driving or riding so the tester says and i keep a clean licence.
it had its good and bad points.

[BlackPig]

:confused: You ride mopeds?


Come 'ere an say that again !!! LOL!!!

Now on a more realistic point , if one unfortunate day you are hit by a speeding car/van/truck , you will undoubtably start rantin' and ravin' about how fast he/she was driving .Think about it !!
Speeding is not the only means of being a fast rider , I admit to doing it as well as the next man/woman but like everything else , I remain responsible for my actions. I ride the limits everywhere , and I don't get bored , 18 years of riding all over Europe and still I have a CLEAN licence .
Who's the mug ???

If you hit the link at the bottom of this post you will see my mopeds :(
( I also have a Gpz 1100 on the go .)
This is not meant to offend anyone , but if it does ....................
:D