View Full Version : Hung out to dry ...........
Surprise, surprise !
3 British squaddies are guilty of prisoner abuse.
But despite being the most "profesional army" in the world no officers were involved.
Hung out to dry ?
One of the few institutions where it seems to be a case of them and us.
Not from Sandhurst
Not important ?
Not sure if i"m being fair but from where I stand this stinks !
They where looters for F**ks sake. If the Yanks had caught them they would have been shot !
technoboiler
25-02-2005, 10:22 PM
well for fks sake the stupid idiots took foto's,,,,,,,,,,,,,not very clever squaddies now were they
its their own fault for supplying evidence of their misdemeaners,,
right or wrong, whatever they did,,,i can only say they deserve what they got, not for the acts ,, for their stupidity!
kitkatman
25-02-2005, 10:32 PM
the f@cking ruperts give the orders and the grunts get the sh@t for it, whilst they kill our blokes with any tactic is to their disposal, our boys are supposed to fight a clean war, war is not clean, it is dirty, it is horid and people die. if getting a few slaps as a pow is all you get, you have got off lightly!
agree with mrs t on that they should'nt have taken photo's!
Dougie
25-02-2005, 10:38 PM
It was hardly torture though,was it?I'd rather be carted around on a forklift,smacked around the head a couple of times and pissed on than have somebody doing things to me with electrodes,knives,swords,paving slabs and the like that captured squaddies have suffered over the years.Let's not forget,these characters were LOOTERS,and were immensely lucky they weren't shot on sight!
I'll agree with Techno,these blokes were totally bone to take pics and hand 'em in to get developed,BUT,when it comes down to it,the ruperts are in charge of their men and should bear some responsibility.It seems the 'Old School Tie' still works. :mad:
well for fks sake the stupid idiots took foto's,,,,,,,,,,,,,not very clever squaddies now were they
its their own fault for supplying evidence of their misdemeaners,,
right or wrong, whatever they did,,,i can only say they deserve what they got, not for the acts ,, for their stupidity!
No one has ever claimed that the average sqaddie was a genius ( and I think that some of the ex forces on here may agree) but to hang them out to dry and them jail them for a few faked photos is extreme.
What the hell is wrong with this country !
Go out and die but don't do anything naughty or we'll lock you up !
kitkatman
25-02-2005, 10:40 PM
if that was torture, they should meet my wife! :D
Dougie
25-02-2005, 10:41 PM
Hell's Teeth,I got worse in basic training! :eek:
kitkatman
25-02-2005, 10:44 PM
i would have prefered that to the breckon beackons
technoboiler
25-02-2005, 10:45 PM
No one has ever claimed that the average sqaddie was a genius ( and I think that some of the ex forces on here may agree) but to hang them out to dry and them jail them for a few faked photos is extreme.
What the hell is wrong with this country !
Go out and die but don't do anything naughty or we'll lock you up !
like i said....if they take fotographic evidence to condem themselves they WILL be fekin condemned!
everyone knows this goes on but ffs,,,,to openly show yourself on camera,,,its unbelievable
i am quite sure a lot worse goes on and i believe a war is a war and a lot of **** happens..but like i say,,,wtf do they expect when they take fotos,,,,,
like i said....if they take fotographic evidence to condem themselves they WILL be fekin condemned!
everyone knows this goes on but ffs,,,,to openly show yourself on camera,,,its unbelievable
i am quite sure a lot worse goes on and i believe a war is a war and a lot of **** happens..but like i say,,,wtf do they expect when they take fotos,,,,,
Maybe they expect their officers to stand up for them, even a little bit.
But I don't think that will ever happen.
How many officers got shot for cowardice in the First World War (I don't know the answer but I have a feeling that it may be slightly unrepresentative)
technoboiler
25-02-2005, 10:55 PM
you can blame the officers all you want but the facts are the daft shytes took fotos of themselves!
kitkatman
25-02-2005, 10:57 PM
IF the officers led by example this MIGHT not have happened...
you can blame the officers all you want but the facts are the daft shytes took fotos of themselves!
Fair comment Techno but I would still expect a little more support from on high.
you can blame the officers all you want but the facts are the daft shytes took fotos of themselves!
OK lets go with the facts as presented and proved.
Only one soldier took photos, as trophies. The daft sod took them to be developed when he got home. He got a light sentence at an earlier hearing.
The three convicted were for physical abuse, moving a bound prisoner with a forklift, a kicking incident, and for failure to report these.
The charge of sexual abuse was unproven.
The three refused to implicate any other soldier, of any rank.
All of this happened in April/May 2003. These guys had just fought a war, and then had been given a job that should have been done by police, not combat soldiers.
technoboiler
25-02-2005, 11:05 PM
I would expect support by the way of the officers taking tighter controle of the cameras these guys had and not letting this display out in the media,,,,it has seriously harmed brit army relations and who knows what will happen to the squaddies left over there who have done fuk all.
i am extremely annoyed that these pics have been displayed everywhere,,,ffs the arabs, iraquis etc do a lot worse but aint daft enough to let it be seen.
these guys were foolish in the extreme and have put lives in danger by their actions.............and i mean more danger than they are already in,,,,media hype is a very dangerous propoganda weapon,,and these squaddies have played right into the hands of the opposition...
they deserve to be reprimanded, not for what they did, but for it getting out....
kitkatman
25-02-2005, 11:05 PM
OK lets go with the facts as presented and proved.
Only one soldier took photos, as trophies. The daft sod took them to be developed when he got home. He got a light sentence at an earlier hearing.
The three convicted were for physical abuse, moving a bound prisoner with a forklift, a kicking incident, and for failure to report these.
The charge of sexual abuse was unproven.
The three refused to implicate any other soldier, of any rank.
All of this happened in April/May 2003. These guys had just fought a war, and then had been given a job that should have been done by police, not combat soldiers.
i completly agree
defarter
25-02-2005, 11:15 PM
Could have been worse.... they could have made a vidio of them selves beheading them and showing it on a web site and tv, or draging the body's down the road with a truck and then hanging them on a bridge for the world to see........
Justice is a wonderfull thing down a one way street:mad:
Justice is a wonderfull thing down a one way street:mad:[/QUOTE]
Best quote so far this year.
Handing those photos in to get developed must rank in stupidity along with Gary Glitter handing his computer into PC world to get fixed!
The lesson in this has to be learn to develop your own photos or at least make sure you get a shot of your boss in an incriminating act so the slimey git can't wriggle out of it if it all goes tits up. :D
Freak
25-02-2005, 11:27 PM
Why the feck can't the media back our boys
These people sell there stories for vast sums of money but would be the first to complain if the forces didn't protect us. Surely the pic's could have been passed on to the people in charge and delt with internally. Scum of the earth the lot of them. :mad: :mad: :mad:
Crofty
26-02-2005, 12:49 AM
Why the feck can't the media back our boys
These people sell there stories for vast sums of money but would be the first to complain if the forces didn't protect us. Surely the pic's could have been passed on to the people in charge and delt with internally. Scum of the earth the lot of them. :mad: :mad: :mad:
Coz it wouldn't sell papers. Simple as that, and by going against the status quo, they can look "dangerous" and "out there" Agree with everythin' people are saying on here, My mate's in the OTC and he get's worse than that all the time, it's part of the deal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it wasn't british troops that caught them and it was the yanks they'd get shot (another mate's in the real forces and he's been to Iraq says the'yre mostly crazy rednecks) or their hands cut off if it was the previous government?
GarrysPhrogg
26-02-2005, 01:15 AM
ok lets say the oposition (iraq, iran) got our guys as prisoners, they dont take pictures cos they dont have a camera (they are still human though, therefore stupid) so they don't stop at tying people up and pissing on them or giving them a slap, they SHAG them be it male or female, they really dont give a ****.....................
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ok go and find who was the main man in publisising the events that led to the brits being done, probably some muslim cleric or jew who wants to cause disruption withing the british white comunity .........
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.Lynne :)
stands back and waits for all the **** *STANDS PROUD* "Im ready" :D
Friar Tuck
26-02-2005, 07:37 AM
Bottom line as far as I'm concerned is that they shouldn't have taken the photos! Daft buggers!
However, the Army should've contained this in a court martial, behind closed doors, and therefore damage limitation would've been contained! So the Army can only blame themselves in allowing this out! But it only goes to show that The Army is more interested in it's publice image than looking after it's own!
And Lynne, your right The fuzzies Wuzzies don't care what they do to thier prisoners, as they've been doing it the same way since the year dot.
However, we (the western world!) are meant to be "civilized" and seen to be "doing the right thing" and introducing "democracy", and "liberating" an oppressed race! Therefore any "Atrocities" That the Liberating Armies "commit" is a no-no, and therefore must be seen to punished! It's all image and damage limitation!
despite the fact that Ok Saddam was a crackpot dictator and a pain in the western arse, the Iraqi People were far better off under him than the current regime! They had power, food, hospitals, law and order, of sorts! And what have they got now? A broken country and no sign of the western powers of putting the money where their mouths are and starting to rebuild Irag! just sucking the oil out of it and pocketing the profits!
Mad Dog
26-02-2005, 09:40 AM
Little of what I have just read has been completely true, and most of it is based on biaised opinion.
The "war" part of the action had finished
The soldiers concerned were guarding a supply depot that was being constantly looted
This should have been a Police job, but there weren't any and they couldn't control the level of looting.
Civilian prisoners captured in the "peace" part of the action should have been handed over to the Police, but this process was not made clear to those who had up until then been involved in doing the job they had been trained for this includes officers.
The soldiers would have been detailed in squads overseen by Corporals.
Officers gave the order to "work hard" any caught looters.
One of those charged was a Corporal, so it is quite possible that his group carried out these acts out of sight of even their Sergeant in a quiet corner of the depot.
In the absence of any other reported incidents it is likely that just this one band of men were responsible for any uncivilised actions.
Though similar or even worse may have occured, it does not seem widespread.
The photos emerged because one of the accused had taken the film to a processing shop back home in England and a shop assistant reported it to the Police - therefore it was outside of the military domain and became public knowledge.
There is no excuse for taking an order to "work hard" the looters and then progressing that to abuse.
As a "civilised" society we must be abhorent of such acts by anyone, and punish our own, particularly as an example.
Not one of the men would give evidence against anyone else, therefore any further investigation is thwarted, and there is a fair chance that no-one above Corporal knew what had happened.
Believe me, I am aware of what goes on in "Beasting" and combat training, especially if you progress into the Special Services.
A colleague of mine returned from SBS Anti-Interogation training a broken man. He was never the same again, and this was just part of training.
:(
Sir Ewok
27-02-2005, 03:47 PM
Maybe they expect their officers to stand up for them, even a little bit.
But I don't think that will ever happen.
How many officers got shot for cowardice in the First World War (I don't know the answer but I have a feeling that it may be slightly unrepresentative)
The answer to that is 1 ( a Canadien Liuetenant, deemed unimportant as he was a colonial). A lot of squaddies shot for cowardice in WW1 were either shellshocked (Post Traumatic today) or picked at random to 'Stiffen' the resolve of the troops. One guy went to the firing squad, supplied by his on regiment and asked that they shot straighter than usual as he didn't want to hang around in the cold too long. Not the words of a coward to me. Anybody who can joke in the face of certain death is a braver man than me.....
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