Work related question - urgent help needed

[triker_gal]

If a company descides to completely change a shift rota that used to be permant days and permant nights, to 6-2 mornings and 2-6 evenings on a 4 weekly basis (4 weeks mornings, then 4 weeks evenings), does anyone know how much notice a company is supposed to give before it comes into action or where I can find this information from?

Cheers

[Dusty]

TG
you need to check your contract, what you will probably find is that it will state that "employees will be expected to work as required by the company" however, discussions should have taken place between the management and workforce to resolve any issues that may occur eg kids at school etc.If the new shift pattern would cause you serious problems (not just having to get up an hour or so early or interfering with drinking time) then go and see your shift manager and explain the difficulties this new shift will create.some (not all ) companies will allow you to work across the shifts. I used to run 3 shifts in my factory and most of the time the early( 6 - 2 ) was popular cos it meant people had all afternoon to themselves. whatever you do, dont make any rash decisions or refuse to change,this will only leave you open to breach of contract and they could get rid of you too easy.
if you need any more info, call your local acas office.
good luck,

[triker_gal]

Cheers Dusty, much appreciated. This has just happened to my hubby and as you can imagined he's very annoyed. Will pass on your information and see what he wants to do next, thanks again for the advise :)

[Abb]

If his contract states his hours of work, as they are legally required to, then they have to give 13 weeks notice of change of contract. Check out www.dti.gov.uk for further details.

[triker_gal]

They gave their employees a letter yesterday stating the changes, and these changes will be taking effect on 28th February, so much for 13 weeks notice, cheers for link Abb, much appreciated :)

[smeghead]

your local job centre have all sorts of leaflets about workers rights try them hth

[Doro]

yeah as abbs said, 90 days notice to be given before ANY change in contract, but after the 90 days they could change your contract to whatever they wanted, even a reduction in pay (if you lose shift allowance for example), and your only redress is to leave, ie like it or lump it

tis the law


but they can change your contract before 90 days if you agree with the changes... :)

[Mitch]

When I was a nurse all my shifts were changed overnight to 13 hour shifts internal rotation days and nights. They said tough to anyone who couldn't do it, do the shifts or piss off. I was a single mum at the time, you can imagine how much fun it was finding a flexible childminder!!! FF's :mad:

[smeghead]

erm is there something your not telling us mitch :eek:

[johnr]

ahhhh the benefits of being in the union! i had a problem similar to this a few years back, took it to the union, and they screwed my employer into the ground, as others who worked with me had been telling me for ages what a waste of time my subs were, as they didnt see the point, it was quite satisfying seeing them all get shafted, whilst i stayed as i was, then when they moved me to another job, saying take it or you make yourself unemployed, the union got them to pay me out 12 grand, whilst the others who had still not got the message got zip.

[Mitch]

erm is there something your not telling us mitch :eek:
Erm...
No...
waitaminute, it's Mrs R again... :D

[RedRobbie]

If a company descides to completely change a shift rota that used to be permant days and permant nights, to 6-2 mornings and 2-6 evenings on a 4 weekly basis (4 weeks mornings, then 4 weeks evenings), does anyone know how much notice a company is supposed to give before it comes into action or where I can find this information from?

Cheers

TRIKER.
Iam a full time regional organiser for a trade union. if you email me through this site telling me the details of the changes I will explain your rights regarding notice and consultation and explain the consequences of constructive dismissal etc.. these are not contractual issues but statutary requirments. i also need to know your length of service and how many employees are affected by this change

[kitkatman]

If a company descides to completely change a shift rota that used to be permant days and permant nights, to 6-2 mornings and 2-6 evenings on a 4 weekly basis (4 weeks mornings, then 4 weeks evenings), does anyone know how much notice a company is supposed to give before it comes into action or where I can find this information from?

Cheers
they can use a 12 week change of rule, ie, if you change you work pratise for more than 12 weeks it can then become your new work pratice, but also remember that if you work more than 48 hrs a week, that will now become obsolete on the 28th march, but there are ways of getting aound that, if you need more advice give me a call when i'm online or e mail me at keithnichol@msn.com :D

[WALLACE]

They gave their employees a letter yesterday stating the changes, and these changes will be taking effect on 28th February, so much for 13 weeks notice, cheers for link Abb, much appreciated :)
Triker Gal , all depends on the wording in his contract an time of service.
most firms are going down this rd an 9-5 jobs disappearing,ma place has bn on shifts fir yrs with 5 differant wans including wk ends on rotor. most will give the notice that is required if they were laying someone off. i.e. salaried=
a month, hourly paid =a week or two. the only wans that get 13 wks is the wans wae strong union membership. But most new contracts have a clause
that states, "hours of employment as the company needs to stay viable in the market."

[Abb]

ahhhh the benefits of being in the union! i had a problem similar to this a few years back, took it to the union, and they screwed my employer into the ground, as others who worked with me had been telling me for ages what a waste of time my subs were, as they didnt see the point, it was quite satisfying seeing them all get shafted, whilst i stayed as i was, then when they moved me to another job, saying take it or you make yourself unemployed, the union got them to pay me out 12 grand, whilst the others who had still not got the message got zip. As a former TGWU shop steward (honest!) I can honestly say that the Unions are superb in this respect. We battled and battled to get the best T&C's for the men. Obviously they (unions) hav changed a lot nowadays, mainly for the better, and act more as a negotiationary body with the management as opposed to a bunch with a 'fuk managers' attitude (although this sometimes works)

[RedRobbie]

Triker
you are getting mixed and misleading advice here albeit with good intentions. THE company can give you up to 90 days notice dependng on the amount of employees working ther and your length of service. This issue cannot be resolved by the particulars of your contract as this is a fundamental change to both your contract and terms and conditions.
Thus any unilateral change must conform within the ERA employment relations act and must contain (depending on numbers involved) up to 30 days consultation. The consultation must be meaningful ie. they must consider any proper proposals put to them to avoid the change.
Once the consultation is over they must then issue upto 90 days notice. There are ways around this for the employer but there the exeption rather than the rule.

The change is always a breach of contract and a dismissal however the question is "has the employer acted reasonably" and was the change essential. This is what an employment tribunal will be asking itself should you take it that far.

Other issues to look at when opposing this change could be Sex discrimination act. Are these hours taking into accout the female role as primary carer at home and will a detriment be suffered. Same could apply to DDA dissability dicrimination act.

Under the new grievance and disciplinary regs (enfored oct 2004) you will need to lodge a formal grievance with your employer regarding these changes . This is important as am Employment trribunal (ET) will not hear your case untill you have exhausted the internal procedures.Once these have been exhausted you then have 3 months to lodge an appeal to an ET to seek a protective award.
this can be done for the individual or collectivly but you will need legal advice.

The easiest way to secure a win on this is to join a trade union .
Dont refuse to work the new hours but make it clear to your employer that your working of them is not a sign of acceptance and that you reserve your right to pursue any outstanding legal claims that may arise from the change of contract.

I know this is complicated but your employer is relying on your ignorance and lack of proper representation to for this change upon you on their terms.
Fight the bastards girl you can only win.
Power to the people.

[triker_gal]

RedRobbie, have sent you a pm , thankyou

[RedRobbie]

RedRobbie, have sent you a pm , thankyou
your welcome. ive pm'd you the details and the letter to be submitted

[disciplekidd]

ummmmm......... true I'm not a business-man and I'm only 17 so I'm gonna test my potential that everyone tells me I have:

In legal terms as of a way to not breach your contractual agreement you could do these 2 things to protect yourself from a lawsuit:

1. Have a sign-up list for the employees to choose which shift they prefer with a line for thier signature.
Somewhere on the document have something clearly stating the following:" This list is of employees from blahblah.Inc Stating thier first choice of the shift change, also agreeing of this change, as well as in agreement that the first choicew may not be acquired due to overflow of choice "
(whatever you get the jist :D )

2. Also have a notice form to be passed out to all employee's that has to be signed and brought back. (tell them they have to sign it so no-one can ever say there wasn't enough notice) somewhere in the notice include:
"By signing this notice I have agreed that I am in agreement with the new shift schedual, and that I have recieved this notice "

:D now if someone trys to sue for breach of contract they can go fuck themselves :cool:

[kitkatman]

ummmmm......... true I'm not a business-man and I'm only 17 so I'm gonna test my potential that everyone tells me I have:

In legal terms as of a way to not breach your contractual agreement you could do these 2 things to protect yourself from a lawsuit:

1. Have a sign-up list for the employees to choose which shift they prefer with a line for thier signature.
Somewhere on the document have something clearly stating the following:" This list is of employees from blahblah.Inc Stating thier first choice of the shift change, also agreeing of this change, as well as in agreement that the first choicew may not be acquired due to overflow of choice "
(whatever you get the jist :D )

2. Also have a notice form to be passed out to all employee's that has to be signed and brought back. (tell them they have to sign it so no-one can ever say there wasn't enough notice) somewhere in the notice include:
"By signing this notice I have agreed that I am in agreement with the new shift schedual, and that I have recieved this notice "

:D now if someone trys to sue for breach of contract they can go fuck themselves :cool:
that may work in your part of the world, but i'm afraid to say it would not work here!

[ollie]

You usually find that at the end of an employment contract it will have(in very small print) the employee is expected to work any shift with the company giving reasonable notice ,This does'nt actually change your terms and conditions so they don't have to give 3 months notice.