Medium or large?

[Sir Ewok]

I just finished watching Derren Brown, missed the first 12 mins. but the part about mediums was very intresting. My second wife was a psychic medium (although a very large woman) and was bloody good at what she did, earning £10 an hour working from home. She taped all her reading and gave the tape to the customer at the end of the reading, so they could listen and see that they were not being led (cold reading) and more to the point so could others. She even showed me that I could read the cards (tarot) and would bring me in cold to interpret difficult areas of the reading. Many of these I got right or close enough.

For those who may or may not believe, here is part of what she told me. To read an every day situation, just go with your instincts. turn off the usual barriers we put up in our everyday life and let your instincts take over. Women do this all the time, that's why they spot repressed gays, psychos and needy gits long before men do.

Here is an example:- when my son started going out with the woman, who later became his wife she said her husband had run away with a lover. In my head, the words "What his or yours" formed and so I said them out loud. The room went deathly silent, but I said nothing to move my position. She went red and admitted it was her lover and she was bi-sexual. On several occasiions I have done this, even looking at a card layout and telling a woman their had been a stabbing incident in her life (Hubby was doing a life sentence for stabbing a guy who had molested one of their kids) even though I had heard none of the reading and had never met her before. I understand the basics of cold reading, but generally you need to practise quite a lot to get serious hits like Derren Brown did and I never did it before in my life. Makes you wonder if there is any real gifts or if it is all bull................. :cool:

[Sir Ewok]

What are your thoughts on the subject?

[Fran]

What are your thoughts on the subject?

You tell me! :D

[Fran]

I think there are some people with a gift for this sort of thing.It used to freak Dougie out when I used to say exactly what he was going to say just before he said it or at the same time,especially if it was something that I couldn't have guessed.I've been to a couple of mediums who come out with the usual crap that everyone wants to hear....I see you with a ton of money...I see you living to a really old age.Haven't come across anyone really good yet but I'd like to.

[Dougie]

I knew she was gonna post that! :eek:

[lowrider]

As a psychic medium who has been developing my talent in a serious manner for three years now then of course i believe that everyone has the ability to tune in.However just like any talent it varys with people and also the amount of work they want to put in.
What annoys me with people like Derran Brown etc they claim that there was no psychic work used at all :mad:
They seem to ignore the possibilty that they maybe a natural sensitive.
Of course there will always be the people who can't be bothered to work and just make up some general stuff or even genuine psychics who are having a off day,it happens.
I will carry on working and studing and i am happy to let those who don''t beleive to carry on.
Just for the record ,at the moment i don't charge for readings.

[Sir Ewok]

What annoys me with people like Derran Brown etc they claim that there was no psychic work used at all :mad:
They seem to ignore the possibilty that they maybe a natural sensitive.
Of course there will always be the people who can't be bothered to work and just make up some general stuff or even genuine psychics who are having a off day,it happens.


I fully agree m8. It was intresting how accurate it was and undoubtedly there are fraudsters out there. As well as believing there are genuine peeps out there, there may be peeps who are naturally 'cold reading' without realising it, thus believing their messages come from nowhere (ie the spirits). My ex had too many good hits to be a fake and it is far easier to 'cold read' the past than it is to read the future.

On one occassion she warned a woman not to lend anybody her car. It later transpired her son had been in nick for some minor offence and feeling a bit down when he was released, decided he wanted to drive the family to the seaside. Ignoring my ex's warning she allowed him to drive herself, her daughter and grandchild. They were involved in an accident in which the daughter and grandchild both died. Peeps seem to think that mediums (whether psychic or not) can pinpoint dates/ times/ places, but it isn't like that, much muddier and unclear. You have to sort the signal from the mush, like a badly tuned radio reciever.

Good luck with what you do, I believe that if you have a genuine talent, then you will succeed.

[Gypsy]

DORO SAYS.....................





my mother was a spiritualist and I was brought up in that church, she was a very successful medium and now works in blackpool under the name micquel astarre or summat. she does tarot crystal ball etc in person or by phone.

as a child i watched her give specific messages to visitors to the church - people who I knew she'd never met or spoken to before

eg she'd say


I have a name starting with G, sounds like george (yes a common name) then if several folk in the audience raised their hands she'd concentrate more and start giving specific details like


he is holding a necklace - then she'd describe the necklace in detail, someone would recognise this and she'd give them his message which was also specific like - the watch you thought you lost is behind the cabinet in the kitchen


no-one ever said she was wrong, and she was highly acclaimed in our area



anyway I have a scientific brain so I always question and analyse things and seek the truth. because I was brought up to believe I spent years trying to work out whether spirits actually exist.

I have come to the conclusion (though I am open to changing it depending on new evidence gathered, I am not at the end of my search yet) that it is telepathy.


how?

I went to an excellent card reader who was 100% spot on with my past and say 80% for the present. The future obviously hadn't happened, but I was struck at who accurate her predictions were - based on what I was thinking at the time. Her predictions for the future were 100% correct according to my thoughts at the time but 0% of it actually happened.

my mother said this was because the future is not pre-ordained so nothiing can be predicted, I may divert from the path I was on etc

me?

I think the mind is much more powerful than we imagine, and mediums use telepathy


SORRY THIS IS SO LONG BTW


I read about a case where a girl had gone missing and a psychic investigator was called in to help find her. He held her mother's hands and some of her clothes then accurately pinpointed where she was on a map. He also described her killer. The child was found, the killer was hung. The theory behind this is that at the moment of death the last thing the girl thought of was her mother, so she 'projected' to her mother and the psychic picked up all this info from her mother's mind.


I have an open mind. I can accept the possibility of an afterlife as easily as I can accept that there is nothing afterwards. I can accept that ESP is telepathy as easily as the idea that it's spirits communicating.

we should investigate mediums etc along these lines.



DORO :D

[Doro]

that was me btw way :D

[Doro]

all psychic phenomena can be attributed to telepathy


eg when my sister's father-in-law died, at the exact moment - I suddenly saw an image of her mother-in-law turn round from the foot of his hospital bed and stare at me. I was 40 miles away at the time and we weren't even close.

when he died she 'projected' her despair to everyone in her life. Because I was awake (it was 4am) I picked it up.

like an antenna


the human body is already known to behave as an antenna, and our nerves operate by electricity. No reason at all why we could not tune in to other folk's thoughts and feelings.

[Sir Ewok]

I think there is a possibility that some peeps work on Telepathy, but how would your mum know that the watch was behind the cupboard if the person who was dead left it there. Surely the last thing on his mind would be a watch and where he'd left it, the theory does have some holes in it, but could explain some hits. My ex's hits were mainly the future, although the past was also good.

There is a documented case of a living ghost from world war 2. A guy was on his ship in the med (thus wearing 'Whites', hot weather uniform) when his ship was torpedoed. His wife woke up to see him standing at the foot of the bed, telling her he was OK. She thought he was dead, but he survived and said he was thinking of her at that same moment. Since sailors didn't know where they would be in action, she wouldn't have known what style of uniform he would be wearing at the time. Obviously Telepathy under extreme stress, but is that what real ghosts are?

[dracken1]

i'm afraid i tend to believe that it's more to do with psychology, body language listening intently to what a person is saying and how they are saying it.
both my missus and i had training in this for our job, but some people are naturals at it, if i was one of those naturals then maybe i'd believe i was a medium.
same as comunicating with the dead, i'm very skeptical on this one.
the belief that we carry on after death is a very comforting thought (or not) and i'm sure that for many people in times long gone, it bought them a lot of comfort. back then when lives were very short and often lived in sheer poverty. the belief that they would go to a better place must have helped.
but also as the human race developed and started considering itself above all else, then we came to believe that unlike a tree's leaves we could'nt just die and rot away, no we carry on .
personally i believe we live, we die, end of story.
i mean if we did "move on" and people could communicate with us that would mean we retained memories,which means we could still feel hurt.
horoscopes never say "your going to have a **** day, your dog will die, your wife/husband will bugger of with a camel breeder" but they do.
don't read your horoscope in the morning, read it at night and 99% of the time it will be right. even though you will have to twist it to fit, if you believe in it then twist it you will.

plus notice how most cases of visions happen as we wake or just woken or are woken up, the mind is a very powerfull thing, eyes are only receivers, it's the brain thats sees, and the brain is very easily tricked.

[Sir Ewok]

What you have described above is the basis of cold reading, but can you do it blindfold? Obviously if you are really attuned to voice modulation and inflection you may have some hits. Of course the reverse is also true, that if you are a good cold reader, you may not think you are psychic. The problem is that it should be put to scientific study under controlled conditions. My ex did tell of bad things, although she tried to avoid telling peeps they are going to die. That sort of stuff can be self-fulfilling (you tell'em they'll die in agony, so they commit suicide, thus you were right).

Like you I believe that you only ever get one go at life and if there is a Heaven and Hell, we are in it now, it's of our own making.

[Doro]

sir ewok the watch was lost by the living person, could be that her mind knew she'd lost it there and my mum was reading her mind, maybe she went home and looked and it wasn't even there


but I'm like dracken with this

I believe that when we die we rot and there is nothing else. thus it makes more sense to live this life to the full. work to live, enjoy every moment, be good to people not because of some reward in the afterlife but because this is the only chance you get. I know it can be comforting to think of loved ones living on, but they are always with us in our hearts. I still believe my granfather is watching over me because it helps me, but he exists in my memories only.

[Sir Ewok]

I'm with you on that last bit, Immortality is being remembered by those who come after you. Make your mark and you will be remembered, just like wossisname? you know, they guy from the telly! Used to do that show on Saturday night! Whatsitcalled! :D

[Doro]

I'd be interested in hearing real life true psychic experiences off folk so we can work out if the telepathy theory applies

[Mrs Reject]

Me and Mitch being witchy type folk believe in everything...fairies, nature spirits, ghosts, psychic experiences but don't admit to any of this to the outside world in general - it's just too much stress having to explain yourselves and put up with the mirth of your colleagues and never get promoted again so outwardly we pretend to be norms and inwardly we live in fairy land :D
I've seen hundreds of deaths being a nurse and never felt anything at any of them but always make sure I say farewell and good journey to the soul of the deceased and let them know someone on this side knows they are still there.
We do have a ghost in out house though, an elderly lady and a cat, we get glimpses of them out of the corner of our eyes ocasionally and our cats often sit on the stairs and stare at the landing for ages.

[Sir Ewok]

My friends grandson was with his mum in the bathroom, aged about four and a half. He saw a box of Tampax and turned to her saying' I used to buy those for my wife in my other life, she was a pilot'. He talked about shaving, that he had a moustache and a big willie with hair. He also hated being upstairs in their house here in England because the 'green men' kept coming through. He sat and stared at a corner of the cieling (much like animals do) and when asked what he was doing, he said he was watching his grandma ( who had died about a year before). He used to talk a lot about a previous life and we never stopped him doing so or ridiculed him for it. Lately he has stopped doing it.

[dracken1]

this is an example of easily tricking the brain.
the 2 vertical red lines bulge outwards at the centre
http://www.jwmotorcycles.com/sqline.jpg

but they don't those 2 red lines a perfectly straight.
now that you know that do they look straight?
no.
you know they're straight but unless you view the image from almost edge on they will continue to bulge in the centre.

so believing you see something in the night is very ...well believable :)

[Doro]

I also have theories about memories being passed on via DNA, and theories about the electromagnetic field from our brains being left in one place (ghosts?) and since children's minds are less developed intellectually and closer to the instinct side of things, they often pick up on stuff.




I reckon the world is full of mystery, most of it is about the human body, why are we so intelligent when other animals aren't?

also Mrs R have you ever tried to invent a make-believe creature? It's virtually impossible as we can't think of something unless we've already experienced it somehow or somewhere. Thus have you ever considered that the ideas for fairies/dragons/unicorns/flying horses etc etc etc must have come from somewhere, ie for someone to imagine a dragon they must have exxperienced them. Well i know what I mean, perhaps they come from some ancient race long since extinct, but they must have existed.

[Rogue Monkey]

Maybe were all missing a point here! Derren Brown IS a "Gifted" individual! He admits that he "learnt" his powers and they can all be explained scientifically but he has the "gift" to use them in a way most of us couldnt! I dont doubt that many use their natural "gifts" and really believe they come from some spiritual place but maybe this is just misplaced enthusiasm? I dont know but you have to hand it to him! he Rools! :o

[lowrider]

Dracken, as i have said i have no problems with skeptics but you will not believe the amount of people who are mediums who in the early days of development thought they were going mad :confused:
I myself used to spend time looking fot the tv/radio that had been left on to explain what i was hearing.
It was not untill i started to meditate to try and calm down that i started to see things that people understood.
I even went to a spirit church and i have not been near any church for 20 years or more. :(
There i slowly began to understand what was going on and was told by several meduims at different churches that i had a talent.
At times it does my head in and often decide i am going to quit,it does not come easy.But i always seem to graviate back,someone asks for a reading and away i go again.
The experiences i have had have blown my mind and i wish i had the talent to but it all down here for you.
Maybe we will meet somewhere and have a good debate.

[dracken1]

lowrider i have no probs with mediums.
except if it is all true and there is another plain of existence after this life. then i would be pissed off if some medium kept asking me questions.
i get enough questions in this life nevermind in the next.

an afterlife is a nice thought i guess but i'm afraid that as i was bought up in old celtic ways and rites were gods are mainly everyday things, such as trees, animals, water sun moon. all of which i can either see touch hear or smell. then i admit having a prob with the supernatural. even though it is also a celtic belief.

left handed,tourettes syndrome,schizophrenia,dyslexia, and many more things could at worse have got you burnt at the stake in the 1600's. or at best you would be seen to have mystical powers. thats only 400 years ago. we don't yet have a full understanding of the human brain. (and in the case of the female brain i guess we never will
:D ).
if there are any real mediums out there then i do really feel sorry for them. as there are a dam sight more fakes who just want your money and as in everything else spoil it for those genuine people.

[Crofty]

I think a lot of it is intuitave. The first one where the lady drew those pictures was a good example. Looking at her, even though she was only on screen for a few minutes, I managed to do pretty good. I guessed tree straight away I guessed the fruit (although not a banana, just "a fruit") and "something cuddly like in a childrens book" which was pretty much the smiley face sun. Intrestingly I said to Ped (my mate who I was watching it with) I don't think she'd do a sailing boat. I know she actually did, but i thought it was wierd the way I thought specifically of that. When I saw the banana I knew the sailing boat would be definetly next when Derren said "something similar" I probably could have got the religous symbol had i paid more attention. An american backwater town, talking about supernatural/spiritual type things, somene who appeared to try to lead a "good" i.e. religious life. You just have to go with your instincts and first impressions. Maybe that's what a lot of that stuff is based on -instinct and people's suggestability, someone who is "psychic" may just be better in tune with that part of themselves, and guaging other people. Perhaps even to be able to suggest ideas to their heads, sort of cold reading advanced.
Obviously I could be wrong about it all completely and I accept that, so don't think I'm trying to rubbish what anyone else thinks. Without solid proof, everyone's ideas are equally valid. Also: sorry that was so long.

[Sir Ewok]

Never apologise for a long posting, if it makes what you have to say clearer, then go for it.

Crofty, I like what you say and it is reasoned and well balanced. As you say, without impiricle proof any argument is valid.

Dracken, why do you have such a problem with the supernatural if it is at the core of your belief system. Obviously in most religious works the supernatural is not always literal, but allegorical as with Jesus's parables. But Christians decry 'Magic' but isn't that 'Miracle' under a different name. I know of somebody who tried to attack our place 'magically', but my ex always protected herself and the house before doing her daily readings. As she put it, when you invite spirits into your house, you never know who's going to come.

I'm not saying I believe in all this, but I am open to all ideas. Science does not recognise any supernatural phenomena because they can't replicate it in the lab. Well excuse me, when did they have a nuclear explosion in their lab to prove the atom bomb would work. Seances etc should be done under controlled conditions, but not so tight the medium can't work. All cold reading systems should be obscured so that any connection would either be 'Spiritual or Telepathy. At least we would be a step nearer to finding out. Also they could try the CAT scans, since it shows unusual brain activity and if there was something different (an altered state for instance), it could then be tested further.

[BikerGran]

Well I am a Christian but prolly rather a strange one as far as other christians are concerned cos I don't see why believeing in Jesus Christ stops me believeing in a lot of other things as well, in fact as someone said it almost means you have to!

I do not think there is any such thing as 'supernatural' - wait, let me explain. I think if it happens, then it's natural, and it happens all the time.

I have never been to a medium as I have never felt the need to contact the dead, I know whats happened in my past, and I certainly don't want to know about my future! But I think there are a lot of people making money out of others without being genuine (people at work have visited a medium, and I wasn't impressed with what they said, but they were - mostly I think because they wanted to be. So I guess it wasn't really a rip-off, if they got what they wanted.

But telepathy - that used to happen all the time with my Mum, we'd phone each other at the same moment etc, or buy the same thing.

And when my dad died in hospital, Mum and I both woke at 3am as we'd heard a loud bang and thought there'd been a car accident outside. In the morning the hospital phoned to say he'd died at 3am. Mum and I were not surprised, these things happen.

As for fairies, spirits, ghosts...... Yes I believe they are all there, some folks are more sensitive to them than others.

And as a Christian I have always thought it odd that we are told to keep away from dabbling in magic or horoscopes or other things like ouija boards, as they are dangerous. How can they be dangerous if they don't mean anything?

Mike and I have a guardian angel. She is a cat. This we both firmly believe to be true. There's nothing supernatural about Tabitha, she's a real cat, she just happens to be our guardian angel.

Long post, bit mixed up and bitty, but as I said at the beginning, if it happens, it's natural.

[Sir Ewok]

Supernatural is usually taken to be something that doesn't happen normally. For instance if you drop a brick on your foot and it hurts like feck, that's not supernatural, just normal. However if a brick materilises out of nowhere, drops on your foot, which hurts like feck I would say that was supernatural. Jesus himself (if you believe of course) was a supernatural being (being the only son of God could not be described as natural) who carried out supernatural acts (raising the dead, turning water into wine and curing the lame and sick) and even came back from the dead (again not a natural thing to do back then). I'm not knocking tour beliefs, just trying to clarify what I meant as supernatural.

[dracken1]

what i was saying ewok, is that even within my own religion i have a prob with anything i cannot see,hear,smell,touch.
and that is were faith comes in. to believe in god you must have faith as there is no factual evidence to prove it.
so i guess i'm lacking on the faith bit. people are always searching for more. looking to the supernatural, aura's , heavenly visitations.. why?
we are alive now, that is a fact in 100 years we will all be gone, an almost certain fact. life is a long slow road ahead of you at the age of 10, but look back 10 years, it's gone in what seems like a blink of an eye.
enjoy what we have not waste time looking for something that may not be there. people reach out looking for things but don't know what exists a mile away.

[Steel Draconian]

Too Heavy for me!!!!! I measure life by each and every minuit. in the past i've had mates, a Bike and a great life, Then in 24hrs I've lostmy m8's, my Bike & nearly my life, the Lot through a Mad MC's Sgt at Arms (No names) now a yr later I'm on my way back to the life style i've chosen, I love & Breath. So what is supernatrial? is it some one clinging to what they once loved?, Is it people hoping that theres something more? I'm Content with what i've got and if there is something else, Great! i've got a nother Road to take when i'm gone!

[lowrider]

Dracken, agree that you must enjoy life now.When people moan about getting old i laugh and point out that there is only one other option,death ;)
But have to argue with the point of seeing,feeling etc.
Radio waves? Can you see them with the naked eye?
Yes you can see them with a machine but raido waves have been bombarding the earth for centurys,long before we could detect them.
Kirlin photography shows decay in living matter after for example a leaf is plucked and starts to die.
Again this was going on long before us humans knew about it.
So to bury your head in the sand just because a machine to detect these alternative methods of communication smacks of cynisim.
Which means that you don't want to be convinced. :confused:
As to your point on being asked questions from mediums,if you are being asked questions then they are not a medium.
Only question you get from me is "do you understand that" :)

[dracken1]

low rider i get the impression that i offend you. don't start quoting examples of things such as radio waves, decay etc. i've never seen sidney harbour bridge except on "a machine" but yes i believe it's there. you are doing what many people do when someone does not agree with them 100%.
radio waves are a natural thing, which we have learned to produce. decay starting as soon as the life is cut off is something else i know only to well.
i have experiences which i cannot explain, usually passed off as intuition.
our lives are run by electricity. no matter what you do electricity is there in the equasion . our brains put out electricity if they did'nt we would be dead. we see what electricity can do. so maybe it follows that our brains are capacle of producing some effects that we don't as yet or may never understand. you say i sound like i don't want to believe, your wrong to a point. i would like to know the truth, but what is true?
as a race we always strive for more. we reach the far corners of our planet, we venture into space. we have this unquenchable thirst, and a good thing to. else we would still believe that that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around us, heart transplants and many other advances would never have happened.
we believe we are the masters of our world, when history has proven time and time again that we are in fact one of the most vunerable.
and that bothers many people

[BlackPig]

I hear voices,but I'm more your XL !! :p :D :rolleyes:

[lowrider]

No dracken you don't offend me but all i ask is that you keep a open mind.
This is why i used radio waves as a example they were there long before we invented a machine to prove it.
As of yet we have not invented a machine that can prove that meduimship is real,unless you count the mind.Don't mean it aint real.
As to the arrogance of the human race,tottally agree.