I.D. Cards [Archive] - 100% Biker & Trike Magazine Forums

defarter

20-12-2004, 06:20 PM

Just wondering what your thoughts are on these I.D. cards that the powers that be are going to slap on us sooner or later.
I find it very scarey that at the touch of a button some one who i have never met or spoken to can look into my life without my permission or knowledge, but what bothers me more than anything is who else will be able to tap in to this imfomation illegaly even though they are telling us this could never happen.

Or am i being just a little bit paranoid :eek:

Doro

20-12-2004, 06:30 PM

Dougie

20-12-2004, 06:35 PM

Yer not paranoid enough my friend!I have no problems with ID cards,I've had them in one form or another for jobs for the last 28 years or so.It's the fact they're gonna stick a chip in them that gets me.Today's technology means that they could probably use it for satellite tracking,so they'd know where you (or your card at least) are at any time.I know that mobile phones can be tracked but I don't use mine that much.Y'ever see that film "Enemy of the State"?The CIA denied that they had equipment that advanced,but then they would say that,wouldn't they!Hell,the cameras in the SR71 & U2 spy planes could read a newspaper from at least 50000 feet,and that was in the sixties so god knows what they can do with digital.Also,if the government want us to have the damn' things why do WE have to pay for them?To quote Mr Horse from Ren & Stimpy,"No sir,I don't like it!" :mad: :mad: :mad:

defarter

20-12-2004, 06:52 PM

honey I believe they already can do that stuff

I am in favour of ID cards cos it might help with auto theft prevention etc, that is if they go like the US and make you have to carry your driving licence whenever you drive

i think that's what i mean

I dont know Doro, I can see some good points about them but the bad bits seems to out weigh them, as for the fight against terrorism it seems to me that that is just an excuse...if you do not have your card with you when asked to I D yourself you have 10 days to produce it, if you are a visitor to this country an I D. Card will not be required for the first 3 months.
I think i need a lot more convincing mate. ;)

Santa

20-12-2004, 07:17 PM

I completely disagree with I.D. cards and will NOT carry one (whatever the penalty for non-cooperation may be).

trouble is if they start saying you can't be issued with a new passport/driving licence without one?

which will make it a bit more difficult....

my passport runs out next year and I don't intend missing my travels abroad just cos of this

krammer

20-12-2004, 08:18 PM

the government has stated that id cards would be optional , but when you come to renew your passport you would be issued with one like it or not. i really think we are starting to see a real increase in 'control' from this crowd that calls itself labour but appears to be turning into some kind of soviet style party. war against terror? bollox!

Miss Demeanour

20-12-2004, 08:55 PM

Well, it is true that all the information is out there, somewhere. I object for less philosophical reasons:-

1) the next time you renew your passport and you get your gubbmint approved ID card, the whole process will cost you in excess of EIGHTY FIVE QUID. just in case you missed that the first time... I said... EIGHTY FIVE QUID.

2) A number of my more precious posessions cost less than EIGHTY FIVE QUID and they're covered by my contents insurance. I'm a bit of a cretin and have occasionally been known to lose things. Feck it, i'm human occasionally. if I spent EIGHTY FIVE QUID on something, do you think I'd carry it all day, every day?

3) Now then. all this imformation is going to be stored on one database, right? What is the gubbermint's history on IT procurement? No large scale IT project that I can remember, has ever come in complete, within budget, or within time. At worst, entire systems have had to be scrapped.

4) See 1), 2) and 3).

therefore, in my un-esteemed opinion, it's going to be one huge c0ck-up. All this info may already be accessible, but at least different parts of it are accessable to different people, on different systems.

Mrs Reject

20-12-2004, 08:57 PM

I have managed to avoid filling in the last three census forms and got away with it - it's ludicrously easy. i never intend to fill in a census form or get an ID card, they'll have to shoot me first the fuckers!!!! :mad:

Dougie

20-12-2004, 09:00 PM

Nah,they'll just drag you off to a concentration camp with everyone else who doesn't fit in with their ideas.Remember,bullets are expensive!

blackhack

20-12-2004, 09:03 PM

If I really must have a card?......I think I'll ask for the jack of spades

Rogue Monkey

20-12-2004, 09:36 PM

Monkeys are exempt so Im not really bothered! :o

Fran

20-12-2004, 09:55 PM

Monkeys are exempt so Im not really bothered! :o
Na you're not exempt....you'll just have to carry a card with a micro-chimp in it... :D :D :D

BikerGran

20-12-2004, 10:00 PM

might help with auto theft prevention etc,

The only thing that ID cards will help with (apart from the powers being able to track your life) is with identity theft!

It's so easy to clone cards - look at bank cards - that if all thats neede to prove who you are is a card, the professionals will be producing false ones in no time!

As for the government and IT systems..... :mad: I was queued up in the post office today behind a lot of elderly folks who'd come - for the second time - to collect their pensions in the wonderful new scheme the govt foisted on them. Instead of having a book, getting the money and having the token ripped out, they have to use a card like a bank card. But they couldn't have their money cos the computer was down!!!!!!! Apparently it was down yesterday as well, some of them had come back today. One lady was in tears, saying "Well I can't do any shopping then cos I haven't got any money".

I THINK THIS STINKS!!!!!

Mrs Reject

20-12-2004, 10:50 PM

Na you're not exempt....you'll just have to carry a card with a micro-chimp in it... :D :D :D

I'll get your coat for you ........and a shotgun, groan!!!

Bosun

20-12-2004, 11:01 PM

its the idea of payment that gets me ( apart from the fact of having them)
paying for motorised vehicles fair enough ( to a point the new sorn idea is pants) as it is up to us to decide if we want one
even paying for a passport ok, as if you dont leave country you dont need one
why pay for things they want us to have .. ?

Nitrowing

20-12-2004, 11:14 PM

I hated having a picture on my driving license when I lived in N.Ireland - I was stopped quite a few times by the Army and the Police and asked to show my license While I Was Walking the street...

The ID cards that will be produced by the govt will be carried by law abiding people - criminals wont carry them 'Produce in 10 days'? who will know who is producing who's ID card? Why would a criminal go to the police station to produce their card anyway? Would a suspected criminal/ terrorist be held in custody until someone could produce their card for them?

Grav

20-12-2004, 11:15 PM

As for the government and IT systems..... :mad: I was queued up in the post office today behind a lot of elderly folks who'd come - for the second time - to collect their pensions in the wonderful new scheme the govt foisted on them. Instead of having a book, getting the money and having the token ripped out, they have to use a card like a bank card. But they couldn't have their money cos the computer was down!!!!!!! Apparently it was down yesterday as well, some of them had come back today. One lady was in tears, saying "Well I can't do any shopping then cos I haven't got any money".

I THINK THIS STINKS!!!!!

Damn right it stinks.There has been several occasions where the Post Office keypads have been down due to "technical difficulties" yet it goes un-reported as the staff are not allowed to tell anyone the system is down. The big Lie in all this is the fact that you DO NOT have to have one of these cards, the DWP (Dept of Work and Pensions) have basically bullied people into having them WITHOUT telling them about one of the alternatives. A GIRO. Just because order books are being phased out does not mean the end of Girocheques, You can still have your Pension paid by Girocheque each week/fortnight if you wish. The DWP DO NOT tell anyone this.

Sir Ewok

21-12-2004, 01:53 AM

You could also opt to have it paid straight into your own bank account just as your wages are now and nothing changes.... except your poverty level!

defarter

21-12-2004, 09:09 AM

What i find hard to believe is all these Polls that we keep being told about that 60 - 70% of people are in favour of the ID cards, now i find that very hard to believe if you look at the replys to this thread and ask the people you know what they think about them.... me thinks someone is telling us some big PORKIES

Shep

21-12-2004, 09:29 AM

What i find hard to believe is all these Polls that we keep being told about that 60 - 70% of people are in favour of the ID cards, now i find that very hard to believe if you look at the replys to this thread

That's cuz 60-70% of people don't think, they do what they're told, unlike most peeps on here.

I've yet to hear a valid reason for having ID cards.

Grav

21-12-2004, 10:31 AM

You could also opt to have it paid straight into your own bank account just as your wages are now and nothing changes.... except your poverty level!

This is the method I wish to use, yet the bastards keep sending me reminders about this post office card and if I dont get something sorted soon the they will open an account on my behalf. I have already given them my bank details 3 FUCKING TIMES! and yet they still send me letters, even after I went to the local benefits office and gave them to the incompetent feckwits in person and got a receipt to make sure i have some ammo when they try to force me to have one. :mad:

Meanwhile, back at the plot...................

bill?

21-12-2004, 11:18 AM

just found this on the BBC website :-
Why is the government so keen on these cards?

The government thinks ID cards would be a powerful way of fighting illegal immigration and fraud.

It also says the cards would help Britons travelling abroad as more countries introduce requirements for biometric details.

The cards would be a way of checking the entitlement of an individual to receive services and benefits, including welfare payments and treatment under the NHS.

But the scheme is also designed to help stop terrorists and organised crime groups using false and multiple identities.

The ID Card Bill also creates new criminal offences for the possession of false identity documents.

first point. any organized illegal immigration set up will probably provide fake cards

second. How many countries are planning to introduce requirements for biometric details.

third. checking the entitlement of an individual to receive services and benefits etc. I have already two ways already of proving I'm entitled to these things (1) national insurance No. (2) NHS No. which is on both my birth certificate and my medical card.

fourth point. ID cards didn't stop terrorists in Spain, France or Germany so hows it going to be different here?

Sir Ewok

21-12-2004, 12:05 PM

but they're not biometric are they! Biometric is the new buzzword for we're gonna cock up bigstyle. Peeps are already being turned back from the states 'cos there is something wrong with the info on the card.

Question. Although you are not required to carry the card, will you have to wait for emergency treatment, following an accident/heart attack etc; if you don't have a card with you?

Question. What if a hacker gets on to the 'Secure site and jumbles up all the info? I could end up with David Blunketts retina scan and Abu Hamzas fingerprints.

Question. How will it stop terrorists getting into the country? The IRA has had sleepers in this country for many years, who's to say Hamas and other organisations don't have any as well? For those who don't know, a sleeper is an agent/active service volunteer of an organisation, who on the surface has no connection to the organisation or criminal record etc. He can be activated by a phone call, ad in the paper or personal caller. He may just provide a safe house or go out on missions for his organisation.

Question. Why are MP's so well protected against terrorism, while we are left to be shot or blown up? Is their miserable lives worth more than ours?

Question. If you take the identity of a dead person (ie a baby that has not been registered for a new card) and put your iris scan, fingerprints and DNA on the card, will you legally be that person? Who would know?

Question, if everybody put their card in the microwave for 2 seconds so they would not work when required, would they get fed up with trying to make an unworkable system work?

Question. Why did our parents/grandparents bother to fight the Nazis when we are developing our own Gestapo here in Britain?

Question. If you trademarked your DNA, could you charge the government everytime they swiped your card? might be worth a test case!

Have fun..... while you can :cool: :cool: MIB's :cool:

slugonamission

21-12-2004, 12:26 PM

FFS, why are the government wasing money on this. It isnt going to stop terrorism, eventually people are gonna find ways around it (terrorists included). And what if the system crashes? Or it gets a virus, could be intrestring........

Dusty

21-12-2004, 01:44 PM

Personally I think there is an awfull lot of paranoia (?) about this.and a lot of it is down to scare mongering by radicals and opposition parties,we all should realise that the authorities know a lot more about us than we imagine,health,dental,passports,driving licence,library card etc etc.and every piece of info is available now to those who seek it out.Of course you will get the people who state that they will oppose it and go to prison blah blah, but be honest, they would protest against anything regardless of what it was.
The conspiracy bandits are anti establisment full stop,and unfortunately too many (sensible) people get sucked in.What nobody discusses are the many plus points of a national ID system.There are more than a few people on this forum waiting for major transplant surgery so if the ID cards carried medical info and peoples wishes to donate organs etc this could save countless lives,now would the same member of the anti card brigade turn down that kidney,lung,heart because they believe that the donors civil liberties were abused by being made to carry an ID card ?would they b*ll*cks,morals and beliefs soon fly out the window in instances like that.
So lets wait for the official goverment stance on everything and leave the armchair experts to their rantings,Then when we are in full possession of the facts we can ALL demonstrate and rebel.Its much easier to fight a battle with all the facts.chinese whispers get us nowhere.
I need to lie down now,I feel tired

bill?

21-12-2004, 02:22 PM

So lets wait for the official goverment stance on everything and leave the armchair experts to their rantings,Then when we are in full possession of the facts we can ALL demonstrate and rebel.Its much easier to fight a battle with all the facts.chinese whispers get us nowhere.
I need to lie down now,I feel tired
If we waited for the "official goverment stance" it would be to late to do anything about it. thats been proven in many cases. one of the most recent being the foot and mouth desease thing.
some of these "armchair experts" who are having a bit of a rant are people with some, if not most of the facts behind the use and abuse of this type measure.
Yes all this information about you, me, the bloke next door exists in different places, but just think about what will happen when the system / government / beurocracy gets it all together in one place and it certainly won't be for our benefit. you'll be tagged and monitored all your life, well maybe not you but in a couple of generations who knows.

What nobody discusses are the many plus points of a national ID system.
ok what are they?

Freak

21-12-2004, 04:30 PM

SKY NEWS has received this bulletin from Brussels. After the successful introduction of the Identity card in the UK followed by the rest of Europe, the European Union commissioners have announced that an agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for all European communications. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).

In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c". Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replaced with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik emthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20 per sent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.

By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by v During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou", and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl.

Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru.

krammer

21-12-2004, 04:35 PM

what i have noticed in recent years is that while our right's as individuals are slowly but surely being eroded away we, the people just seem to shrug our collective shoulders, moan a bit and accept everything passed into law. remember the poll tax riots? they resulted in an unjust taxation system being changed!. are 'they' putting something into the water? because we do seem to be a pretty subjued lot. i dread to think what this government has in store for us bikers, because individuality seems to really piss off those tossers in downing street...............ho hum :)

wegit

21-12-2004, 04:44 PM

I suppose I don't mind the ID Cards if they help to curb the abuse on aslylum seekers and aid catch terrorists, what gets me is government vote them in and WE have to pay for them !!!!

Sir Ewok

22-12-2004, 02:22 AM

Sorry Dusty I carry a donor card, but if my relatives refuse MY donation, you get feck all anyway, so what's the point of doing it electronically.
The government discusses the plus points (as they see them) and it is up to us, our duty if you like, to think of the things they haven't (or are not telling us). Remeber the computer scheme that was going to link social security, unemployment benefit and housing benifit records together. According to the government this multi million pound computer system would allow claimants to fill one set of forms to claim all three benefits (or combination as applicable). Where is it? scrapped at vast cost because it NEVER WORKED, and according to IT sources it never could have. However unlike most companies that fail to deliver the goods, this lot got paid in full and Suprise! Suprise! they were drinking buddies of the minister in charge of the project. A few years back now, but still relevant today

By the way I am old enough to have had a National Identity Card as issued in 1948, why do I need a new one. Also I have several in fairly good condition for sale to Illegalimmigrants that wish to work for Ewokandtuck Cocklepickers Inc.

Mitch

22-12-2004, 08:47 AM

Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru.

Holy sheet, what's Michael Howard doing on here?
Nibbuls anyone? :D

Mitch

22-12-2004, 08:59 AM

WAKE UP!!!

Has anyone got a copy of Fatherland by Robert Harris withering away in their bookshelves? If so read it!!!

Also, you may remember our dear departed friend (wishful thinking there :D ) Blunkett helped chairman blair bring in the Civil Contingencies act recently, giving him the powers to call for Marshall Law - just in case the election doesn't go right for him?

no?

I thought not!

have a read of these... (courtesy of the Loyal Arthurian Warband)

Government announcement of Royal Assent to the Civil Contingencies Act (http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/newsroom/news_releases/2004/041118_ccbil l.asp )

Note that the Act does not actually become law until 1 April 2005.

Blair's Enabling Act (http://www.iits.dircon.co.uk/newalliance/ccb.htm )

Summary in Plain English (http://www.iits.dircon.co.uk/newalliance/ccbsumm.htm )

However there have been Campaigns for Amendments (http://www.iits.dircon.co.uk/newalliance/ccbamend.htm ) , and involves the Human Rights Act 1998 ---

Also a comment from
Civil Defence Today (http://www.cdtoday.co.uk/cca.shtml)

happy reading...

Spike

22-12-2004, 03:46 PM

BlackPig

22-12-2004, 03:58 PM

WTF !!! :eek:

Living outside of the UK,I wasn't aware of that one.

Sh1t the bed !! :eek: :eek:

Mrs Reject

22-12-2004, 11:34 PM

This is what the UK Independence party is all about - exposing this kind of thing but sadly not many people take note. Another reason for getting rid of the t.v, seen any kiddies programmes recently - brainwashing!

Rogue Monkey

23-12-2004, 12:23 AM

Oooooooo! a bit complicated for me at te momment! but ...! I think I get the drift! Not surprised at all! Mr Tony (The OMEN) Blair will be the end of all of us! Mark Me words! This lunatic needs assassinatinon like nobedy ever before! But I canrt even see straight at the momment so Im out! Maybe The Talibanies will do us all a favour and blow him to mush! Ooo! and his feckin ugly wife! :o Sheet! Im expectin the SAS t` come burstin throuh tha window once I post this! Hahahah! :o