question for 1st Aid peeps

[Doro]

I'm doing a 1st Aid at work course this week at St John's Ambulance

our trainer favours putting cling film on a burn (or scald) - not tight - don't want to prevent swelling etc

and do this after cooling the burn (or scald) for at least 10 mins


but I am confused, what if the injury hasn't been cooled properly, surely the cling film would melt into the wound?


or does cling film have a very high melting point?

:confused:

[wegit]

Just found this on: http://health.discovery.com/encyclopedias/427.html

First aid can often be given by the average person when someone has just been burned. It is important to contact the emergency medical system (http://health.discovery.com/encyclopedias/3061.html), or EMS, if the burn is extensive or severe. EMS should also be contacted if the person shows signs of shock or has burns to the airway or lungs. First aid can be divided into aid for major and minor burns.
First aid steps for minor burns are as follows: · Cover the burned area with cool water, but not ice water, for about 5 minutes. · Try to reassure and calm the person. Burns can be extremely painful and can cause a lot of anxiety. · Cover the area with a bandage after soaking it for several minutes. Use only clean cloths, and try to avoid contaminating the wound. · Over-the-counter pain medicines (http://health.discovery.com/encyclopedias/1668.html), such as acetaminophen or ibuprofen, may be given. · A tetanus shot (http://health.discovery.com/encyclopedias/1792.html) should be given for burns if it has been more than 10 years since the person last had one.

Very minor burns usually heal without any more treatment or follow-up with a healthcare provider. If the burn appears to be more severe, such as a second-degree or third-degree burn, or if it covers an area greater than 2 inches across, a person should receive medical attention. Burns of the hands, feet, face, major joints, or genitals should be treated as major burns. The person should see a healthcare provider.

Following are first aid steps for major burns: · If the person is on fire, have the person stop, drop, and roll. If the person is still on fire, cover the person with a wool or cotton blanket, and douse them with water if it's available. Don't use blankets made of synthetic materials, since these can melt. · Try not to remove burned clothing unless it comes off very easily. Make sure that all burning material is removed from the person's skin. · Make sure the airway is open and the person is breathing. If necessary, begin CPR, or cardiopulmonary resuscitation. · If the person is breathing and has serious burns to the fingers or toes, try to separate the digits with dry, sterile nonadhesive dressings. · Elevate the burned area and protect it from further burns, pressure, or injury. Take steps to prevent shock.

There is a self-test here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/first_aid_action/es_scalds.shtml

My youngest burnt himself with hot water, I think we used a towel soaked in cold water and just got him to casualty !!!!

Can't wait for me chrissy card !!!!

[Robin]

Cling film does have a high melting point, just look at how hot you can get things in a microwave covered in it. You can wrap chicken breast in Cling Film and still burn it without it melting.

*you should only use proper microwave film in direct contact with food as the normal stuff gives you cancer apparently*

If the skin is so badly burned that it is hotter than that then the patient is well and truly fcucked.

Also Cling Film fresh off a roll will be pretty much sterile as it has come straight from the factory and hasn't been exposed mush to the air.

If St. John's (or whoever) are advising this course of action I would bet that they have done some good research in these days of litigation. Go with their advice.

[devilsquest2000]

thr thing most these places dont bother tellin u is that if u do help some one then the chances are if they dont like the out come of the injury ull find your self in court,and if they die after u tryed treatin them u can be charged with manslorter??? :eek:

[wegit]

I have to admit..... My wife is a Staff Nurse (over 8 years) at the local hospital....and she has always been told (unoffically) to walk away !!!!!

[Captain Smurf]

Just finished 2 months at sea. I am the 'Ship's Doctor'. I would say that, if you can get someone to casualty, cool the burn immediately (10 minutes under cold running water) then get them to casualty. If you are a long way from hospital cool the burn then, yeah, cling film is as good as anything. All it is doing is minimising fluid loss and preventing infection, Question is, if you are so far from a hospital, are you close to a supply of cling film?
If burn is so bad it needs cling film, it needs professional attention. :)

[Nitrowing]

Clingfilm is good - I always use it on fresh tattoos. It was advised for sucking chest wounds too (if your mate had been shot in the lung) though I would doubt anyone would have been carrying a roll... :rolleyes:
If it was applied to a fresh burn, it would keep the area free from infection, you could still immerse it effectively in cool water and it's easily removed.

[Robin]

DQ, You are quite right there, the first aider is liable.

I'd rather risk that than see somebody die, in the most extreme circumstances. Don't know if I could live with myself for walking away from CPR, or a choking incident rather than being afraid of breaking a couple of ribs. If they are that ungrateful I would probably go back and finish the job off in person. ;)

It is possible to join the likes of St. Johns/Red Cross/etc and pay a small annual amount to be included in their liability insurance and legal cover. They will happily provide details if anybody asks.

[MancCatz]

Hi Doro
a clear plastic bag will do its just to keep the wound sterile and to look at the condition of the wound with out exposing it.

Catz

[madastoast]

Cling film is ok but don't wrap it around anything too tight as it will resticct bloodflow and the melting point of it is quite high unless the person is still on fire it should be ok.You can run wound under cold tap or cold fluids of most kinds ( acid not included or caustic soda solution) even after applying cling film.

Do they still do the mock injury day hat was hilarious when I did the work first aid course everyone thought a diabetic was pissed and left her to keel over :D

[Otter]

Fact:
No first aider has ever been sued or prosecuted for carrying out their duties in accordance with their training. And that includes putting cling film on burns, giving aspirin to suspected heart attack victims (tho that has been stopped now), etc.

However, trying anything that wasn't included in the training will leave the first aider open to all sorts of sh!t.

[ForestFred]

I was always taught that the only thing you put on burns is water.anything else would have to be removed so that the medics could see what damage the burn had done.

[madastoast]

Yes but they've invented penicillin since then FF :D

[Otter]

I was always taught that the only thing you put on burns is water.anything else would have to be removed so that the medics could see what damage the burn had done.

That's what's good about clingfilm. Medics can see the extent of the damage - plus the wound is kept clean of further infection and the cooling effect of cold running water isn't diminished by putting it on.

[ForestFred]

Yes but they've invented penicillin since then FF :D
Peniwot? wots that do then?

[Doro]

ok i asked the trainer today and he said if the burn wasn't properly cool the plastic could melt. other advice


1. don't wrap plastic round the injury.....apply it in strips
2. if EMS won't be too long just keep injury cool


chest (sucking wounds) - apply sterile dressing 1st then plastic over dressing, allow gap at bottom of area for air to escape

also use plastic bag for abdominal injury, especially if intestine poking thru - intestine must be kept sterile and moist, don't try to push it back in, cover area with plastic 1st THEN sterile dressing


all good stuff

I firmly believe everyone (including kids) should do at least a one-day course in 1st Aid every year


I used to go to St John's when I was a kid as did my kids

every where I work I try to be the 1st aider

good thing is if the trainer doesn't mention it I always mention the "don't remove a bikers helmet unless he's not breathing" rule

[BikerGran]

My older daughter did very basic first aid when she was a St Johns cadet aged about 12.
Ten years or more later, when someone passed out in the crowd at the Bulldog Bash, she did all the right things, and said afterwards that she hadn't known that she remembered it, but it just came back to her automatically.

[Born2bVile]

Recently did my first aid at work cert and got told about clingfilm.

Told the tutor that a few of my tatts had been wrapped in clingfilm once completed. He was surprised at this use, but highly recommended it.

Cheers,

Byrnie.