Confused.Com (headlights/mot)

[traficman]

now I'm confused? Vw car engined trike built 2001,is it 1300mm or 1700mm,
before you need two headlights? O----------O,and how far apart?,where's
Alik,Help!,traficman.

[dracken1]

1700mm unless they've changed that as well :mad:

[Mad Dog]

The answer is:-

First measure the width of the trike,

If it has a MOTORCYCLE ENGINE then it it only requires twin headlamps if it is over 1700mm wide.

If it has a CAR ENGINE then it needs twin headlamps if it is wider than 1300mm.

I would imagine that a VW trike is over 1300mm wide, even with a motorcycle front end, and therefore will require TWIN HEADLAMPS.
They can be side by side as long as they are symetrical along the centreline of the vehicle and they must contain a pilot light each and both must dip.

There must also be a pilot (marker) light at the extremities of the widest part of the vehicle (ie on the mudguards) to indicate the width of the vehicle.


The Boom trikes which are TUV approved and imported and registered as new vehicles in this country all come with twin headlamps.
These are VW car engine derived and have an excellent leading link front end.

[dracken1]

what look at me stick my head up my ass tosser came up with that one ffs.

great just f-ing great. so a 148bhp vmax trike can have one headlight.
but one of my 60 bhp vw trikes now needs two.

i'd like to have a meeting with these sodding rule makers in a big field, far enough away so no innocent people get hurt when i bomb the bastards.

fck i'm mad, i have to change my pricing policy everytime a rule changes :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Alik Windrush]

Think there might be some confusion here. I just checked the manual and it doesn't seem to refer to motorcycle engined or car engined but motorcycle derived or car derived.
If it has handlebars and a motorcycle type steering and front suspension then it is 'motorcycle derived' and only needs two headlights if it exceeds 1700 mm width.
Car derived are the bodied three wheel kit cars.
Front marker lights do not have to be fitted to the extremities, or at the front. Fitted on the rear mudguard (or in that area) and within 400 mm of the extremity is fine.

[Mad Dog]

That is correct Alik, the MOT tester's manual refers to "motorcycle" or "car" derived.

But, the tester - and 3 of them came out to look - interperated it as:-

If it has a motorcycle engine & gearbox, then it is "Motorcycle" derived and only needs Twin Headlamps if it is over 1700mm wide.

If it has a car engine & gearbox, then it is "Car" derived, therefore if it is also over 1300mm wide then it will need Twin Headlamps at a maximum height of 850mm.


I'm not sure quite what your last paragraph meant but, you will need a pilot lamp in the front headlamp(s) and a marker lamp on each rear mudguard to indicate the width of the vehicle, and all the above lights must be symetrical across the centreline of the vehicle.


Thus a VW engined trike with motorcycle handlebars and front forks will be deemed "Car Derived" and, if over 1300mm wide, will need 2 Headlamps, both of which must dip.

In all cases a weight certificate from your local weighbridge will be required to be presented to the MOT tester.
Also the V5 registration must be amended to indicate the unladen weight as per the weight certificate.

[Alik Windrush]

There is a guy called Chris Corker at swansea, who is one of the team who administers the new manual.
He runs the MSVA enquiries and his phone number is 0117 954 2544

The is an e-mail address for any queries. <enquiries@vosa.gov.uk>
The web site is www.vosa.gov.uk

I will try to get in touch with Simon Griffiths who is the chap who actually wrote the MSVA manual.

I will also get in touch with the gent who wrote the MoT manual.

I think I'm right........

Before the new MoT recomendations were enforced I was sent (by VOSA) a copy of the proposed M.O.T. Inspection manual changes.

For now I can only refer anyone to section 9.2 which explains examinimg ."Motorcycle Derived Steering and Suspension Systems" The first entry is "Examine the handlebar and fork yokes" This suggests that a motorcycle derived trike would have handlebars.!

Seems to me that you can have a motorcycle derived front end and a car derived rear.!!!

[Alik Windrush]

Sorry to hog the thread but I've just found what i was looking for.

For a time VOSA was issuing an MSVA newsletter to help the scheme settle in.

In issue 2 dated 9th may 2003 it sez (and I quote):-

A new definition of 'MOTORCYCLE DERIVED' has been created to address the trike brake and front light issues. A 'MOTORCYCLE DERIVED' tricycle is a three wheeled vehicle designed and built with a single front wheel and motorcycle type steering and suspension.
A motorcycle derived vehicle is exempted from fitting front position lamps at the front. i.e. can be fitted on the rear mudwings.
The width is increased to 1700 mm before two dipped beam headlamps are required;
Front direction indicators no longer have to be fitted within 400 mm from the extreme outer edge and the minimum distance apart is reduced to 240 mm.
Motorcycle derived vehicles can have either a combined braking system or separate front and rear systems."

end quote

[dracken1]

with that sort of info alik, you do all the thread hogging you want :D

[Mad Dog]

The plot thickens.

Thanks for the input Alik, this is a good debate, and the right place to be having it.

In the case I have been dealing with, the trike in question has a car engine, auto box, car rear axle a very heavy box section frame and a very heavy leading link front end with "tiller" steering.
It's construction and conversion took place some 6 years ago and is registered as a Reliant, although the only Reliant part on it is the Fuel Tank !!!

It weighed in at 685kg which put it in the Class4 MOT section which meant it gets MOT'd as a car.
Therefore the MOT testers - with a lot of reference to the new manual - took the view it was "car derived" and, being over 1300 but under 1700m wide, should have twin headlamps.
Also being in Class4 they reckoned that includes a front numberplate - an issue they overlooked on the re-test when I had put back the useless twin headlamps it used to have.