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DyNasty
11-09-2004, 02:18 PM
If this does'nt take the cake... Opinions? :eek:

FURY erupted last night after a 21-year-old British soldier became the first serviceman to be charged with murder in Iraq.

Trooper Kevin Williams is said to have shot a man smuggling anti-aircraft shells in a handcart as he fled an Army patrol.

It is thought the shells were destined for Iraqi resistance fighters and for use against Allied invasion troops.

But now Trooper Williams, who appeared before magistrates yesterday, will face an Old Bailey trial and mandatory life sentence if convicted.

Williams, believed to have a girlfriend in Burnley, allegedly shot Iraqi Hassan Said in the chest when he tried to flee the patrol of Royal Tank Regiment soldiers in Ad Dayr, 25 miles north of Basra.

An Army source said: “Five or six men were towing the cart. When challenged, three or four ran, leaving two. They were questioned and anti-aircraft ammunition, thought to be from a secret arms dump, was found. When the remaining men ran towards the town, trooper Williams and a Military policeman gave chase.”

The source said a shot was fired in an ensuing struggle in August last year.

The Army was last night reeling with rage over the murder charge.

The tank driver, a member of the 2nd Royal Tank Regiment, had already been cleared by a full Royal Military Police probe into Said’s death.

His Commanding Officer Lt Col Piers Harkinson ruled he had no case to answer.


But the decision was over-ruled by lawyers for the Army Prosecuting Authority.

They passed the files to the Attorney General’s office who asked the CPS and Metropolitan Police to re-open the investigation as a murder probe.

It is the first time in memory, and possibly ever, that a CO on war fighting operations has been over-ruled on such a charge by civilian authorities.

One senior officer said last night: “This has only happened because the Government has decided we must be whiter-than-white, as a result of bad publicity surrounding prisoner abuse.

“It is a desperately sad day. The fear is politics is being put above the reality of soldiering. That is inexcusable.”

At the time of the death, the Army’s Rules of Engagement in Basra allowed soldiers to fire if they thought their safety or that of colleagues was at risk.

Williams, who sources said has not been suspended from duties, yesterday appeared in custody at London’s Bow Street Magistrates Court.

District Judge Daphne Wickham granted bail, ordering Williams to stay at his garrison in Catterick, North Yorks, until his next court date on September 28.




A spokeswoman for the Attorney General’s office said he was the only British soldier being dealt with by the domestic courts.

Asked about claims of misconduct in Iraq, PM Tony Blair said yesterday: “Anyone who commits a criminal offence will be charged.”

Kingo
11-09-2004, 02:23 PM
If he has not broken the rules of engagement he should be ok.

Good luck to the lad it's a difficult job at the best of times I wish him well

dracken1
11-09-2004, 02:34 PM
Asked about claims of misconduct in Iraq, PM Tony Blair said yesterday: “Anyone who commits a criminal offence will be charged.”

wonder what you call it when a leader commits its armed forces to war as the enemy have weapons of mass destruction.

and we all know about that one

defarter
11-09-2004, 02:35 PM
This should do wonders for all our young guys morale over there, if the Iraqies had a cart of ammo that could be used against our guys how many of them could have been killed. just about says it all about this country. :mad: :mad:

Good luck to him and i wish him well ;)

Dougie
11-09-2004, 03:57 PM
As an ex-squaddie I'm totally shocked!Technically these characters were armed as they had explosive devices that could have been used as booby traps,therefore if the proper warnings had been given and ignored (and it appears so as the RMPs didn't arrest him) he was well within his rights to open fire.Stick Tony and his cronies on the ground in Basra and see how long they last before greetin' for their mammies!B*STARDS ALL!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

defarter
11-09-2004, 04:58 PM
Can we start a collection to send :mad: Blair and Co :mad: :mad: over there with a one way ticket, Should only take an hour or so to get it together.

How about Bush and Blair in the dock.

Shudy
11-09-2004, 05:31 PM
Tony B Liar is a TW@ and someone tell that Mrs of his she is not our first lady as the press like to call her. That is the Queen. Cherry Booth should take her rightful place back on the Welsh flag.

I wish Trooper Williams all the best and if there is any justice left in this country, he should receive a full apology and costs and damages, when found to be innocent again. Ferkin PC brigade gone mad.

Tim750
11-09-2004, 05:32 PM
What a load of Bollocks the guy that got shot deserved it

Dougie
11-09-2004, 06:26 PM
Similar thing happened in Northern Ireland a few years ago.A carload of joyriders (bloody stupid term) drove through a vehicle check point at speed without stopping almost hitting the squaddies.Believing his and his mates' lives to be in danger one guy opened fire killing one of the joyriders.He got charged with murder.Can't remember if he got found guilty or not.
Never happened to me,but I would have done the same thing.

bongo
11-09-2004, 07:26 PM
shuddy you said it this is truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Urban Terrorist
11-09-2004, 07:36 PM
Similar thing happened in Northern Ireland a few years ago.A carload of joyriders (bloody stupid term) drove through a vehicle check point at speed without stopping almost hitting the squaddies.Believing his and his mates' lives to be in danger one guy opened fire killing one of the joyriders.He got charged with murder.Can't remember if he got found guilty or not.
Never happened to me,but I would have done the same thing.

Private Lee Clegg was the guy! He was in the para's and was convicted and sentanced to life. He was later released, which sparked a few riots in NI if I remeber

Creature
11-09-2004, 07:37 PM
THIS IS A FARCE - iknow of many in the biking fraturnaty who are in the forces. and many of them will leave the forces if this soldier is prosicuted......

Dougie - remember that one - if memory serves me correct he was prosicuted and sent to prison - was released few years l8er when he won his appeal.

Urban Terrorist
11-09-2004, 07:40 PM
Here we are, didn't realise it was so long ago!!

LCpl Clegg, a private at the time, was on a routine patrol in 1990 when he and members of the patrol fired at a stolen Vauxhall Astra.

Teenage passenger Karen Reilly, 18, and 17-year-old driver Martin Peake were killed.

He was arrested a year later, and sentenced to life in prison in June 1993.

Clegg was imprisoned in the top security Maze Prison, where fellow inmates included Brighton bomber Patrick Magee.

That fuelled a high-profile campaign which eventually succeeded in getting the soldier transferred to Wakefield jail, near his home town.

Three nights of riots

He was granted an exceptional early parole by the UK Government in July 1995 - a decision that provoked three nights of rioting in militant Catholic parts of Northern Ireland.

DyNasty
11-09-2004, 07:42 PM
What p1sses me off, is that when the US AirForce dropped a laser guided bomb at Tarnac Farm outside of Kabul, killing 4 Canadain troops and injuring a number of others, they got a slap on the wrist (1 disharged from the service). The F16 pilots were told repeatedly not engage the "enemy", but chose to drop anyways. As it turned out, the Canadians were doing a live fire night exercise that night but the AWACS controllers and Central Command were aware of them being there.
The F-16 pilot who dropped, was initially flying at over 20,000 feet and well out of range of small arms fire, but he dropped to under 10,000 feet before releasing his bomb. He used the defence that he was in mortal fear for his life, and therefore felt justified in engaging the target.

And that's what happened when he hit coalition troops! THe poor British fellow will probably get life in front of a firing squad, though!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

Dougie
11-09-2004, 10:12 PM
Remember the first Gulf War?Couple USAF Warthogs blew the sh*t out of a British Warrior AFV resulting in deaths,even though the Warrior had clear Coalition ID markings.I may be wrong,but I don't remember the pilots getting done for that,but then the USAF have done that kinda thing for years,WW2,Korea,Vietnam etc.Getting back to the original subject though,mebbe we should write to our MPs expressing our outrage. :mad: :mad:

redtriker
11-09-2004, 10:34 PM
im surprised they have anyone left in the british forces, you follow orders, do your duty, then get sent to prison for it - yep its mad alright!!

Rogue Monkey
12-09-2004, 02:21 PM
F###kin Blair! Give me a gun and I`ll personally blow his fu##in head open!

defarter
12-09-2004, 04:15 PM
F###kin Blair! Give me a gun and I`ll personally blow his fu##in head open!


Mr Monkey, i take it you don't like our Prime minister. :D :D

Could we have a gun each. :D ;)

Rogue Monkey
12-09-2004, 05:00 PM
I dont like him or his cabbinet! They should all be shot for high treason! They were entrusted with the defence of this nation and all they have done is hand it over to foregners who never paid a penny in taxes! All the politically correct t##ts who have crippled this nation with their holyer than thow, we know better than you F#cked up ideas! Half of a generation of British youth lie in graveyards all over France and Belguim who died defending this land! I bet they are turning in their graves now! Anyway, thats my rant over! Just back from Stormin and in need of a hot bath and a J! :D

defarter
12-09-2004, 05:04 PM
Get elected mate and I'll be your agent. :D :D

St George Cross fan... ;) ;)

ForestFred
12-09-2004, 05:08 PM
Now you know I dont normally get het up on this forum.But this has got me fucking mad. I am a card carrying member of the Labour Party but not any more Blair and the rest of them can go fuck themselves with the biggest razor sharp object they can find.I well be sending my card to number 10 telling bollockbrainblair why and if he or any member of the party contact me I'll fucking sue for harrassment :mad:

Dougie
12-09-2004, 06:17 PM
It's worse than we thought!Check out this thead fron the Army Rumour Service (ARRSE) forum.Some of the guys on here are officers,at least THEY are supporting the guys on the ground!
http://www.arrse.co.uk/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8873&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=08bfa6fd1c4bb3831b3e7e9aa9736018
It is beyond belief! :mad: :mad: :mad: Thank Christ I'm no longer in the Army.Whether or not they should be there is irrelevant,while our troops are there they should get the total support of this country,and that includes every parasite of an MP in the Government AND the Opposition.Apart from George Galloway of course.That traitorous little maggot should be buried alive and left as worm food!

Nitrowing
12-09-2004, 06:35 PM
Can we have a revolution yet? Please?!?!? :mad: