Rally gets on BBC news page

[Otter]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/3627448.stm

Was also seen on ITV teletext

BBC page contents below

Police foil illegal music event
An illegal three-day music event planned for the weekend has been prevented from going ahead by police.
Around 500 people were expected at the party - taking place in a field between Hartwell and Roade, Northants - after it was advertised on the internet.
But, after a tip-off from local people, 40 police officers were deployed to set up road blocks preventing access to the site from four main routes.
Ch Insp Mark Taylor said prompt action prevented a "policing headache".
"I'm quite sure the community would have been badly affected by it (the music event)," he said.
"It would have no doubt caused us a very serious policing headache at the weekend had we not acted decisively."
The three-day event was to include a 24-hour bar, music and exotic dancers.

Whatever will the police think of next?

[Bosun]

The three-day event was to include a 24-hour bar, music and exotic dancers.

Whatever will the police think of next?



probably just annoyed they didnt get an invite, just their kind of do..
which rally was it going to be?

[Otter]

It was the Tribal Gypsies 'Gathering'

[Mad Dog]

Should have got a Public Entertainment License.

If you play a bit of ball with them you can get the "Authorities" to be quite helpful.

The Police actually support us in applications for late bar licences, if it were possible they would also support us in an application for a 24 hour bar. We get later legitimate hours than anyone else in the area, and they let us get on without interruption.


This kind of idiocy sticks in the mind of Magistrates, and clouds their decision process when considering requests from those of us who use the proper channels to acheive our aims.

[Doro]

huh

and I quite fancied that rally, glad I didn't bother now...

here's me thinking all the rallies advertised in mags and on forums etc are 'legit'

it seems not

or perhaps this one was and the cops got it wrong?

keep us posted anyone who finds out more....??


:confused:

[Mad Dog]

The Public Entertainment Licensing system Is NOT intended as a means to prevent events form being held.

It is a devised process to ensure that the organisers of events take all due diligence in ensuring that those who attend can do so safely, with regard to their Health and Welfare, and without causing undue nusience to the general public or local community.

Local Authorities across this land differ in their implementation and enforcement of the Licensing Act, but the process still involves consultation with the Police, Fire Brigade Planning Office, Environmental Health and Building control.

Failure to obtain the relevant agreements and thence a Public Entertainments License will invalidate Insurance cover (if you have any).


Feel free to discuss.
:rolleyes:

[Doro]

erm, well....

i got no idea about the law

but thort you had to get licences for

music
beer
health & safety
trade

etc

for a rally

otherwise it was illegal and polis could prosecute

or is that what you meant MD?

I know insurance for events of any kind is quite expensive now

a one-day car rally with just an ice cream van had to be insured for over one million £ to cover any accidents to paying visitors

and we had to pay St John's £150 a day per volunteer for 1st aid

likewise the police had to be paid if you wanted them to do traffic warden duty at the entrance

[Mad Dog]

Indeed that is what I meant.

It states that it was an "illegal" event, and therefore I would assume that none of the relevant processes had been undertaken.

We have £5million cover for £122 per annum. This covers us for any events that we hold in that 12 month period, or any activities that the Club Membership is involved in where we may be deemed liable.

Furthermore this year's Public Entertainment License for 2 nights of music at the Pissed Indian cost us a whopping £1,781.

Therefore I have little sympathy with anyone who chooses not to ensure the Health and Safety of their attendees.

[minxy]

Fair comment. If I attend a rally - advertised through biking press , selling tickets - then I expect it to be legal. ie - that proper safety precautions have been taken and that the proper authorities have been consulted PRIOR to the event being held. If I was going to someone's back yard and bringing a bottle then, fair enough - different story.

As its a local event to me, I hope they take this latest lesson on board and go above board for next year.

Heres hopin :D

[Mad Dog]

That's kinda how it works:-

Under the Licensing Act, if you put on a FREE festival then no license required (however the Police can still do you under the Criminal Justice Bill as an illegal gathering of more than 6 people).

You can have a bloke with a guitar playing in yer back garden to entertain 20 people, BUT, if you charge them so much as One Penny entry then you are required to obtain a Public Entertainment Licence, because, by virtue of seeking remuneration you then have a duty of care. :rolleyes:

[Huw Beer Monster]

As an aside, organisers of events can mitigate some liability by ensuring that any acts/discos/bands/entertainers also have their OWN public liability cover in addition to the event PL cover.

We carry £30m cover as standard... :eek:

[Mad Dog]

That is a minimal aside. They are only insuring their liabilty for effects of their specific actions, such as faulty equipmen/electrical problems or crowd encitement.

The venue owners/organises still have a duty of care and have specific legal requirements regardless of the entertainers.

Having said that, there is some requirement for entertainers to ensure that the venue they are performing at is properly licensed.


The penalties for contravention are £20,000 fine and/or 6 months in the clink.

[Huw Beer Monster]

That is a minimal aside. They are only insuring their liabilty for effects of their specific actions, such as faulty equipmen/electrical problems or crowd encitement.
Yes, but that is then a liabilty off the organiser's shoulders.

The venue owners/organises still have a duty of care and have specific legal requirements regardless of the entertainers.
Always true, especially in a litigious society...

Having said that, there is some requirement for entertainers to ensure that the venue they are performing at is properly licensed.
*Nod*. The Musicians Union are trying to ensure that all musicians (even non members) are aware of this.

[Mad Dog]

Totally agree with you HUW.

I would be p1ssed off if I had paid for advance tickets, coz they are at the bottom of the list in refund terms. The hire companies would still want paying, and any sensible band would have a cancelation clause in their contract (if they had a contrat)

[Otter]

It appears that the two main reasons why the police shut this event down was that there was no public entertainment licence and no licence to sell and consume alcohol.

Apparently Section 63 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 initially mentions gatherings of 100 or more persons in the open air (whether as trespassers or not) at which amplified music is played and as such is likely to cause serious distress to the inhabitants of the locality and it was under this act that they could stop the Tribal's 'Gathering'

[Captain Smurf]

All very good points and well worth remembering.

I do feel, however, that the plod metioned have used this to make themselves look like valiant upholders of law and order by making this look like an illegal rave, whereas it was probably an innocent mistake.

Did they approach the organisers to ask them if they had all their paperwork?

If they did, and discovered that they did not have the paperwork, did they give the organisers the opportunity to close it down themselves before getting heavy handed?

If this had been an event organised by, say, the Gardeners Association, would the police response have been the same?

[Otter]

A couple of factors could have upset the locals enough to call the plod

Firstly, the direction signs:- 'Tribal Gypsies - The Gathering'
The important bit here is 'GYPSIES'. Without any other information to go on the locals assumed pikeys were gathering in their vicinity. It would, however, be the first time that pikeys advertised the fact that they were going to be somewhere.

Secondly, the location. Three villages were less than a mile away (not really a problem) but the marquee was on top of a hill with clear line-of-sight to at least one village.

Apparently the plod got heavy-handed because the Tribal's weren't, initially, willing to shut the event down. Nor would I be if I'd spent out on marquee, loos, beer, etc.

If the Gardners Association, or A N Other non-biking organisation, had decided to run an event then the chances of them not getting a licence are pretty remote.

[Shudy]

It appears that the two main reasons why the police shut this event down was that there was no public entertainment licence and no licence to sell and consume alcohol.'

EEk: you mean I've been consuming alcohol without a licence? This country is getting worse than George Orwell thought........

[BlackPig]

EEk: you mean I've been consuming alcohol without a licence? This country is getting worse than George Orwell thought........


Don't forget that was 1984 ,things have gone downhill abit since !! :eek: :rolleyes:

[DyNasty]

That's kinda how it works:-

Under the Licensing Act, if you put on a FREE festival then no license required (however the Police can still do you under the Criminal Justice Bill as an illegal gathering of more than 6 people). :rolleyes:

WTF?????

In the U.K. you can't get more than 6 people together legally? :confused:

Is the Crown that insecure that they figure more than 6 of em' is gonna overthrow the monarchy or sumthin?

I have noticed that it is also harder to own guns in the U.K. ...
I say why trust a goverment that doesn't trust me. :cool:
DyNasty

[BlackPig]

WTF?????

In the U.K. you can't get more than 6 people together legally? :confused:

Is the Crown that insecure that they figure more than 6 of em' is gonna overthrow the monarchy or sumthin? DyNasty


No, I think this problem originated with your next door neighbours,if you get my drift !!

[Shudy]

WTF?????

In the U.K. you can't get more than 6 people together legally? :confused:
No they might start a political party to rival B liar

Is the Crown that insecure that they figure more than 6 of em' is gonna overthrow the monarchy or sumthin?
No the Queen (God Bless Her) isn't allowed 6 people in case she threatens to overthrow T B liar, divine right and all that.

I have noticed that it is also harder to own guns in the U.K. ...
Popular American misconception, only legally, all criminals have an illegal handgun!


I say why trust a goverment that doesn't trust me. :cool:
DyNasty
.......Trust a government? To what exactly? Tell the truth? Or tax you until dead?

[Captain Smurf]

It's right (no, it's correct, not right) if 7 of us go into a supermarket together to buy beer for a rally, we could be asked to disperse :mad:

[Mad Dog]

WTF?????
I have noticed that it is also harder to own guns in the U.K. ...
DyNasty

My good lady is American, and would have a gun if she could. However, her temperament at times is an example of why she should never have one.

I even take the spark plug out of the chainsaw :D

Over here in Blighty, if you do get to own a gun legally (NO handguns allowed) the weapon has to be kept in one locked cabinet and the ammo in a seperate locked cabinet, preferably in another location.

I've never heard of a kid shooting himself or his best mate/brother/sister over here coz he was playing with dad's loaded handgun that he found in the bedside drawer. :cool:

[Shudy]

My good lady is American, and would have a gun if she could. However, her temperament at times is an example of why she should never have one.

I even take the spark plug out of the chainsaw :D

Over here in Blighty, if you do get to own a gun legally (NO handguns allowed) the weapon has to be kept in one locked cabinet and the ammo in a seperate locked cabinet, preferably in another location.

I've never heard of a kid shooting himself or his best mate/brother/sister over here coz he was playing with dad's loaded handgun that he found in the bedside drawer. :cool:

Good point well made. No-one round here knows I have them, but I think they suspect. No broken windows, no crap but then some genuinely like the bike......

[Jim]

[QUOTE=Mad Dog]My good lady is American, and would have a gun if she could. However, her temperament at times is an example of why she should never have one.

Also being married to an American citizen I wholeheartedly agree, washing up not done....here comes the Colt.45